comparison

[boxbarr]

Hi.

We are a couple from Israel and we will be in Utah for 2.5 weeks on September.

We read Tom's book on Zion and couple of other books (and internet sites) about Utah's canyons & slots, but there is one question we can not get an answer for in the books.

Having just limited amount of time in Utah, we (naturally) want to "stuff" as much canyons as we can, but because we haven't been in Utah (yet), it's hard for us to know our limits.

We are both experienced canyoneers, but we hiked only canyons in the Middle East, mostly the marvelous (but - lucky for us - not so world wide known) sand-stone canyons of Jordan (and also canyons in Israel, Egypt and Turkey) which resemble in some aspects Utah's canyons (slots, sand-stone, running water, natural anchors, the need of climbing abilities, hot weather outside the canyon, flood danger, etc.).

Just to clarify, we know which canyons we are able to do (such as das boot or fat man's misery) and which canyons we won't try doing (such as heaps or imlay), but we can't decide how "dense" we can make our schedule, and due to the "permit system" we need to estimate in advance.

So, if any of you had the chance to explore both Jordan's and Utah's canyons, and can make for us a rough "difficulty comparison" between them (other the water temperature, that one we figured by ourselves), it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Michal & Yoram


As compensation, here some photos from Jordan's canyons:

[Don]

OH MAN. I want to visit Jordan now! (Feel free to post more photos and trip reports!)
Welcome to Bogley!
Have you entered the lottery system for online reservations for the dates you're looking at? If you can get reservations you could do something every day you're here. If you don't have reservations you can try the desk each day for the permits and have back up plans like Boundary or Yankee Doodle or Birch Hollow (I'm sure others have suggestions as well) that do not require permits.

[Cirrus2000]

Gorgeous photos! It would be great to see you post some trip reports with photos from some canyons you've done close to home, if you don't mind sharing them!!

I'm afraid I can't offer any sort of comparison of the difficulties, but I'll add what info I can, and hope it's of use.

Most of the canyons you'll find are going to be full day affairs, when you include shuttles, approaches and hikes out. You can plan on one a day, and expect to take a rest day (perhaps a shorter hike or something along those lines) ever 4,5 or 6 days, depending on your fitness level and how hard you're pushing. There are shorter canyons that can be combined in a day for just about anyone with knowledge and experience - Keyhole and Pine Creek are a common combination - and there are other linkups you can do if fit and fairly quick, such as Telephone and Behunin.

The only difficulty with trying to get in a canyon everyday is, of course, the permit system. One great way to do so is to try hooking up with others in the area for individual trips - that way person B can pick up a permit for tomorrow, while you are doing a trip with person A today... So do lots of posting here in the meantime, showing what you've done, take part in the discussions, and show folks you know what you're doing in the canyons. Maybe folks will wish to join up with you to head into some canyons...

Oh, and one more thing to remember - there's a lot more canyons outside of Zion than there are inside. Start planning your next trip, to explore the Swell, and the North Wash, and the Roost, and Cedar Mesa, etc. etc. etc.!

And welcome to Bogley!

[trackrunner]

Oh, and one more thing to remember - there's a lot more canyons outside of Zion than there are inside. Start planning your next trip, to explore the Swell, and the North Wash, and the Roost, and Cedar Mesa, etc. etc. etc.!

Liar. don't listen to him. I've heard those canyons are not worth that's why there is no permit system.

also welcome

[boxbarr]

First of all - thanks for the welcome greetings.

Don - We didn't enter any lottery cause we "woke up" too late, but we managed to make some reservations (das boot & subway / echo / the narrows), but not all of those we wanted, due to capacity limitations (Mystery / The Wave) or road works (Pine Creek / Keyhole / Spry), so we know we will have to stand in line for some walk-in permits (we saw the thread about the line for Mystery canyon's permit), and we also have plans for some "no permit" canyons (Boundary, Fat Man's Misery and canyons in Escalante).

Cirrus 2000 - Thanks for the info and the tips. We aware of the difficulties concerning the permits, and after reading to your reply we're thinking about obtaining permits for Telephone and Behunin as well.

And, since we saw some requests for trip reports in "our neighborhood", we'll post some soon J

[nat]

First of all - thanks for the welcome greetings.

Don - We didn't enter any lottery cause we "woke up" too late, but we managed to make some reservations (das boot & subway / echo / the narrows), but not all of those we wanted, due to capacity limitations (Mystery / The Wave) or road works (Pine Creek / Keyhole / Spry), so we know we will have to stand in line for some walk-in permits (we saw the thread about the line for Mystery canyon's permit), and we also have plans for some "no permit" canyons (Boundary, Fat Man's Misery and canyons in Escalante).

Cirrus 2000 - Thanks for the info and the tips. We aware of the difficulties concerning the permits, and after reading to your reply we're thinking about obtaining permits for Telephone and Behunin as well.

And, since we saw some requests for trip reports in "our neighborhood", we'll post some soon J

Great photos of canyons in Jordan! I would love to get there some day.

If you do get to Escalante (and you really should), I would STRONGLY recommend doing Choprock. It is one of the best canons in Utah, very long narrow, varied and beautiful. Also, it is in a much more remote area than Zion, with nowhere near the crowds; a very different experience.

[accadacca]

Welcome and yes, trip reports please!