Five Ten Canyoneers. What size to buy?

[mtthwlw]

Advice please! (I looked back through the archives, and I didn't see this question. If it's there, let me know.)

I recently bought a pair of 5.10 Canyoneers. I wear 11.5 in everything... and I bought size 12 so I could wear two pairs of socks or neoprene. After a few hikes (Heaps was one of them, the others were much shorter canyons) my big toenails have both turned black and will likely fall off soon.

The shoes fit nicely in the living room, but when I took them on the trail it was different...

Until my toenails turned black, I thought that maybe I was just breaking in an uncomfortable pair of shoes and that they would feel better on the next hike. They really didn't hurt this bad until this last canyon, and in each canyon they have felt progressively worse.

I like the shoes for stemming and climbing and such... but I obviously have a pair of shoes that are too small. Have any of the rest of you found 5.10 Canyoneers to run small? Do you all wear them a full size larger? A size and a half?

I bought them directly from 5.10, and I've written them to ask about their return policy. I now wish I'd bought them from Zappos (and paid $139 instead of $119) because Zappos would take them back-- even after several wears.

[ratagonia]

Advice please! (I looked back through the archives, and I didn't see this question. If it's there, let me know.)

I recently bought a pair of 5.10 Canyoneers. I wear 11.5 in everything... and I bought size 12 so I could wear two pairs of socks or neoprene. After a few hikes (Heaps was one of them, the others were through shorter canyons) my big toenails have both turned black and will likely fall off soon.

Until my toenails turned black, I thought that maybe I was just breaking in an uncomfortable pair of shoes and that they would feel better on the next hike. They really didn't hurt this bad until this last canyon, and in each canyon they have felt progressively worse.

I like the shoes for stemming and climbing and such... but I obviously have a pair of shoes that are too small. Have any of the rest of you found 5.10 Canyoneers to run small? Do you all wear them a full size larger? A size and a half?

I bought them directly from 5.10, and I've written them to ask about their return policy. I now wish I'd bought them from Zappos (and paid $139 instead of $119) because Zappos would take them back-- even after several wears.

Yup. Been there, done that. My feet were golden for the next six months once both big toe nails fell off.

I went up a half size from that, and they have worked great ever since. I don't think the sizes on the box are particularly useful. They definitely need to fit like an old pair of sneakers, and they are super wide. Thus kinda sloppy feeling to escape the toe-bang, but they still work great. They don't "stretch and break in" like a normal pair of shoes. (Try to sell them here, maybe).

They still work "sloppy". For stemming canyons, I know Ram has a pair a halfsize smaller for when they need to fit precisely, and tries not to hike far in them (or with any weight, which works because you don't carry any weight in those kinds of canyons). Some people use an approach shoe for hard stemming canyons like the 5.10 Camp Four. Which has a better fit.

Tom

[canyonguru]

I use exum rivers and had great sucsess in them but then are worn out and sportiva stopped making them. So now i will probably go with a 5.10 Savant they are supose to be great in the water but are a little more usefull when doing aproach's and should be great for stemming. I just don't do enough canyons to justify spending 120 bucks on such a spesific shoe.

[Iceaxe]

I've noticed the actual size of 5.10 Canyoneers seems to vary between production runs.... so I only buy them in the store wearing the socks I plan on using. YMMV...

Most of the time I end up buying the shoes one size larger than I buy gym shoes and I wear a thin (2mm) neoprene sock. I also trim my toenails before every hike, it's now just part of my pre-hike ritual.

[Scott Card]

I love the sticky rubber, the drain holes, the neoprene cuff, the way they handle themselves in a canyon and I have 9 toe nails with one permanently gone to show for my relationship with the 5.10's. I have a love hate relationship with them. I actually own two pairs. One a full size bigger than my foot that I use in cold water with neo socks. The other I have is just about my size that i wear with little thin socks but wear in the summer months only.

[trackrunner]

so here's my problem with 5.10's I have a narrow foot and 5.10 canyoneers don't fit ever. so I use la sportiva approach shoes which I'm mostly satisfied with. but some very skinny canyons 5.10 canyoneers may work better and hold up better in the skinnies. ideas? anyone else have this problem and found a solution?

[Deathcricket]

I love the sticky rubber, the drain holes, the neoprene cuff, the way they handle themselves in a canyon and I have 9 toe nails with one permanently gone to show for my relationship with the 5.10's. I have a love hate relationship with them.

[ratagonia]

so here's my problem with 5.10's I have a narrow foot and 5.10 canyoneers don't fit ever. so I use la sportiva approach shoes which I'm mostly satisfied with. but some very skinny canyons 5.10 canyoneers may work better and hold up better in the skinnies. ideas? anyone else have this problem and found a solution?

In the skinnies, I feel pretty good with other approach shoes from 5.10 or from La Sportiva (depending on which fits you better), though I have gotten used to the soft, floppy feel of the Canyoneers.

The problem is when going in and out of water a LOT, that a leather-based shoe will grow and shrink with each wet/dry cycle and eventually either fall apart or become awful to wear.

You CAN wear the Canyoneer, you will just need to wear a rather large thickness of socks, such as the Argos 5mm sock; and an aftermarket footbed (a cheap one). Altogether, they should provide enough material to fill up the volume of the shoe.

Tom

[Cirrus2000]

Interesting. I've only ever worn (rented) Canyoneers once (Narrows day hike from the bottom, years ago.) I loved them. I hear the comments about the wide toe box, and it makes sense that I loved them. I have ridiculously wide feet - kind of Hobbit-like - made worse by nasty bone spurs on the big toe joint. Much as I hate to spend that kind of money on shoes that I'll only wear a few times a year, it just might be time to splurge.

Now my feet are about a 10.5, but I usually wear 11 because of the width issue. I guess the 12s would be a little too big for me. If they were 11 or even 11.5, I'd be interested in buying yours, Matthew.

[Scott Card]

It is true. On the bright side, I now can trim my toe nails faster by 1/10th.

[Cirrus2000]

It is true. On the bright side, I now can trim my toe nails faster by 1/10th.

I've had a couple go that I thought would never come back. But they do. They're like zombie toenails.

[Scott Card]

They're like zombie toenails.

I named my toenail "Jason" because it wouldn't die after 4 attempts by two MD's. It also had the appearance of something out of a horror movie and constantly was causing problems and pain. Finally a very fine foot doc terminated "Jason" once and for all. . . . and now there are nine little normal piggies and one tombstone.

[mtthwlw]

Now my feet are about a 10.5, but I usually wear 11 because of the width issue. I guess the 12s would be a little too big for me. If they were 11 or even 11.5, I'd be interested in buying yours, Matthew.

Sorry, Kev. I wish they were 11.5 for you, but the shoe I have is a size 12-- although a small one. I'll put them in the classifieds here if 5.10 doesn't allow me to send them back. Hopefully someone would pick them up. They're still in good condition. I've only worn them through 4 canyons.

I've also rented some before-- although I know I rented a size 12 and was very happy with it-- and I really liked how 12's felt when I rented them. I'm starting to wonder if what Ice says is true that sizes are different depending on the manufacture date. I've never heard of such a thing. I totally loved them through Heaps-- sticky and well-drained... although my toes did hurt at the end of the trip.

Hopefully 5.10 will take them back. As a University of Redlands alumni (Redlands is where 5.10 calls home) I'm hoping they show a brotha some love.

[mtthwlw]

Finally a very fine foot doc terminated "Jason" once and for all. . . . and now there are nine little normal piggies and one tombstone.

Scott,
What's the procedure for killing a toenail? Is it painful? I'm seriously thinking of having it done when these two fall out.
--
Matthew

[blueeyes]

I named my toenail "Jason" because it wouldn't die after 4 attempts by two MD's. It also had the appearance of something out of a horror movie and constantly was causing problems and pain. Finally a very fine foot doc terminated "Jason" once and for all. . . . and now there are nine little normal piggies and one tombstone.

You should get that tattooed on your toe. "R.I.P Jason" on a tombstone the shape of the toenail.

[Cirrus2000]

Scott,
What's the procedure for killing a toenail? Is it painful? I'm seriously thinking of having it done when these two fall out.
--
Matthew

If you can handle it, go to: http://www.pbase.com/lbliss/toenail2 for photos of a nail removal and (chemical) burning out of the nailbed.

You should get that tattooed on your toe. "R.I.P Jason" on a tombstone the shape of the toenail.

Great idea!

[Pelon1]

After a few hikes (Heaps was one of them, the others were much shorter canyons) my big toenails have both turned black and will likely fall off soon.

Both my big toenails fell off after 3 trips through Mystery last year and this year we have done 3-4 canyons (Das Boot yesterday) they are sore and will likely begin the process of coming off again. I think I am going to have mine removed as well. My toenails are just not getting along with my canyoneer 2's so the shoes are staying and the toenails going

[Felicia]

After several canyoneering seasons of losing toenails, I've found that if I trim the nails as short as possible, the nails do not bang as much and stay on longer. I also wear my 5.10 a 1/2 size larger.

For my female friends, I always recomend removing nail polish before a wet trip. This prevents flakes of polish that fall off the nail and drift between the toes that then create a painful blister - been there, done that.

[Cirrus2000]

I'm starting to wonder if what Ice says is true

That way madness lies...

[ratagonia]

Sorry, Kev. I wish they were 11.5 for you, but the shoe I have is a size 12-- although a small one. I'll put them in the classifieds here if 5.10 doesn't allow me to send them back. Hopefully someone would pick them up. They're still in good condition. I've only worn them through 4 canyons.

I've also rented some before-- although I know I rented a size 12 and was very happy with it-- and I really liked how 12's felt when I rented them. I'm starting to wonder if what Ice says is true that sizes are different depending on the manufacture date. I've never heard of such a thing. I totally loved them through Heaps-- sticky and well-drained... although my toes did hurt at the end of the trip.

Hopefully 5.10 will take them back. As a University of Redlands alumni (Redlands is where 5.10 calls home) I'm hoping they show a brotha some love.

Did you rent them at ZAC? We do not use 5.10's sizing because it is so screwy.

Tom