Englestead Tree "E"

[taatmk]

A group of 4, possibly 5 with a new "recruit" as of yesterday, are planning on doing Englestead in mid-August. We are planning on dropping into the canyon at the canyon head, as per Tom's discussion/photos.

Has anyone descended from tree "E" and what was your experience with it? Tree "E" is the forked tree located just above the words "head of canyon" in the second photo.

Thanks

[moab mark]

I have heard that tree E is the best rappel. Right down the water way, but is very hard to pull your rope? When we went we used tree E but we had someone there that pulled our rope back up and took it out. Was a great rappel. If you can find some grunt to drop you off and hike in a then haul your rope back makes for a much better day.
Edit, I just looked at your pictures again, I do not think we went off the forked tree? I think there is another tree that lines up better with the watercourse? When your there it is obvious which tree would be the best.
Mark

[Scott Card]

I have been that grunt. I didn't like it. Much more fun to do the canyon IMHO.

[moab mark]

I have been that grunt. I didn't like it. Much more fun to do the canyon IMHO.

Yea but a $100 probably does not mean nearly as much to you as two starving college kids from BYU.

[Don]

Yea but a $100 probably does not mean nearly as much to you as to starving college kids from BYU.

You paid 100 bucks? Man, I was just thinking that even a day being the grunt and hiking the rope back out would be SO much better than today in the office.

[moab mark]

You paid 100 bucks? Man, I was just thinking that even a day being the grunt and hiking the rope back out would be SO much better than today in the office.

We looked at it as a great deal. We took 6, paying ZACS to shuttle us would of cost more then paying those two and we didn't have to haul the rope.

[Iceaxe]

Pulling the ropes and packing them through the canyon is no big deal.... but... I hate cleaning up the Englestead shuttle at the end of the day... that sucks and takes about 3 hours... I'd much rather spend the 3 hours drinking margarita's next to the pool with the hot young stripper wife.... so dropping $100 to maximize the time of a group of six is a no brainer to me...

[ratagonia]

I have heard that tree E is the best rappel. Right down the water way, but is very hard to pull your rope? When we went we used tree E but we had someone there that pulled our rope back up and took it out. Was a great rappel. If you can find some grunt to drop you off and hike in a then haul your rope back makes for a much better day.
Edit, I just looked at your pictures again, I do not think we went off the forked tree? I think there is another tree that lines up better with the watercourse? When your there it is obvious which tree would be the best.
Mark

Yes, I think Tree E gives the best rap, and as Mark notes, it is not the forked tree (that you can see in the other photographs), but a large stout tree. Actually there are two large stout trees that both line up fairly well.

If pulling the rope after you, then Tree B is the only way to go. Sling it as high on the tree as possible with a Wrap 3/Pull 1.

Personally, I like to set up two ropes to A. have the rescue rope already set up and B. get everyone moving faster. Even had 4 ropes one time, BITD... When setting up two ropes, C and D work best, as they are about the right distance apart.

Tom

[Pubalz]

Last year we used tree B had no problems pulling the rope

[Scott Card]

Yea but a $100 probably does not mean nearly as much to you as two starving college kids from BYU.

Truth is, I was following orders from my wife. It was planned to do the bookend tour of Zion east to west, begin with a 300' rap in Englestead and end with a 300' rap in Heaps, all in one trip. Spidey and Clark did it. I dropped them off about 10p.m. and I ran shuttle for Englestead and met up with them at about 2:30 a.m. We ate an early breakfast and I joined Clark and Spidey along with two others and we all did Heaps. Spidey and Clark did the true Bookend tour. A very long night/day for them I only did the left book end - Heaps and played grunt at Englestead.

For the Record, I'd carry my ropes and do go pick up the car before I'd pay $100 bucks to avoid a car spot or the extra weight of the rope. You have to understand, my group once carried about 1100 feet of rope through Heaps just to be efficent.

[ratagonia]

Truth is, I was following orders from my wife. It was planned to do the bookend tour of Zion east to west, begin with a 300' rap in Englestead and end with a 300' rap in Heaps, all in one trip. Spidey and Clark did it. I dropped them off about 10p.m. and I ran shuttle for Englestead and met up with them at about 2:30 a.m. We ate an early breakfast and I joined Clark and Spidey along with two others and we all did Heaps. Spidey and Clark did the true Bookend tour. A very long night/day for them I only did the left book end - Heaps and played grunt at Englestead.

For the Record, I'd carry my ropes and do go pick up the car before I'd pay $100 bucks to avoid a car spot or the extra weight of the rope. You have to understand, my group once carried about 1100 feet of rope through Heaps just to be efficent.

And my group carried 325 feet of rope plus 120 feet of pull cord through Heaps, just to be efficient. Differen strokes for differen folks!!

Tom

[Scott Card]

Ok, so it was our first time through when we had 1100' of rope. And I was joking just a tad with the "efficent" comment. We weren't quite sure on the last series of raps how to sequence 6 of us so instead of being worried about perching too many people at the same time, we had enough rope, plus pull ropes to do the whole thing all set up at once. I got the lucky job of cleaning the top two raps. Spidey ultimately went last on the big Kahuna. We don't carry so much anymore as I believe we have the sequencing of the last series of raps dialed in. With 6 people I still think we carry about 600-700' of rope.

Just as point of curiosity, what is your preferred knot when joining two ropes of different sizes together -- pull cord and rap rope? (I've not yet been converted to the whole pull cord philosophy .... yet.)

[ratagonia]

Ok, so it was our first time through when we had 1100' of rope. And I was joking just a tad with the "efficent" comment. We weren't quite sure on the last series of raps how to sequence 6 of us so instead of being worried about perching too many people at the same time, we had enough rope, plus pull ropes to do the whole thing all set up at once. I got the lucky job of cleaning the top two raps. Spidey ultimately went last on the big Kahuna. We don't carry so much anymore as I believe we have the sequencing of the last series of raps dialed in. With 6 people I still think we carry about 600-700' of rope.

Just as point of curiosity, what is your preferred knot when joining two ropes of different sizes together -- pull cord and rap rope? (I've not yet been converted to the whole pull cord philosophy .... yet.)

Why, a double EDK of course: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/tech/tying.php

T

[Iceaxe]

For the Record, I'd carry my ropes and do go pick up the car before I'd pay $100 bucks to avoid a car spot or the extra weight of the rope.

Lawyers must not make very much per hour....

Seriously.... I've never understood this from some people... most professionals can work and extra hour and come much further ahead on value when it comes to dollars/hour.... particularly when you add in mileage, gas and other crap.... and a group of 6 averages out to just over $16 each. Anyone working the drive up at Mickey D's comes out ahead at that rate..... Dang.... I consider time is my most valuable asset... it's the one thing in life I can never really replace.....

Now if you are a starving college student maybe cleaning up your own shuttle makes some sense.

Mod Note: I split the Knot stuff into it's own thread:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?39878