Questions about Orderville from a Noob

[jman]

If the guides will take you in on Tom's ATV route you miss the first rappel (not missing anything) and saves alot of time.

I always do it this way when doing Birch.

[nonot]

Did Orderville about a week ago, only had to rappel once at the waterfall/chockstone. It looked to be a difficult downclimb, there was a log jammed below the chockstone that would make it easy to get snagged. Additionally the water certainly was not as deep as in the video above, I believe that it was about waist deep, maybe chest deep. Our group rapped it off a meat anchor because a group of scouts was rapping off of rope tied with a bowline with one or two harnesses for a group of 12 (very slow) and we wanted to pass them. They let the last one play though on their rope.

[ratagonia]

Always better to be safe than sorry. Things can change in an instant. Birch Canyon is jaw dropping beautiful and fun. The guides at ZAC are top notch and would insure that your group was safe and came away with a memory that would last a life time. A gym will not prepare you for Zion. I'm just sayin....

And how is that leg of your's healing up?

Tom

[seb42]

Took a group of six (6) through Orderville last Thursday. Compared w[ith going through in June of '08 there were no required swims this time. The water temp was actually refreshing. Actually saw people coming up canyon almost to The Guillotine obstacle. We did it in 7.5 hrs (three adults, 17, and two 13 yr olds).

[oldno7]

Went through with a group today, be advised---there was a huge swarm of bee's about a 1/4 mile above the guillotine. There were many and all that I saw were flying. Don't know if these are the Africanized ones or not, they did not sting anyone in our group. I did spot them early and had everyone hurry through the area.

[daviskpjr]

Just learned about the flash flood this past weekend and it reminded me to post a follow-up on my trip from July 10th. I heeded the advice posted here and hired a guide to take us through Birch. I was prepared to continue the hike down Orderville, but the NWS called for moderate risk of flash floods so we hiked out to the Orderville trailhead with the guide instead. No regrets. Birch was a great adventure for my family and me. Hopefully I'll be able to return another time and experience more of Zion

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[ratagonia]

Just learned about the flash flood this past weekend and it reminded me to post a follow-up on my trip from July 10th. I heeded the advice posted here and hired a guide to take us through Birch. I was prepared to continue the hike down Orderville, but the NWS called for moderate risk of flash floods so we hiked out to the Orderville trailhead with the guide instead. No regrets. Birch was a great adventure for my family and me. Hopefully I'll be able to return another time and experience more of Zion

Was that Tyler as your guide???

Tom

[daviskpjr]

Isaac from Zion Ponderosa guided us.

Kip

[taatmk]

Should we plan on renting wetsuits for the cold water, or will the hot temperatures of July offset the chill of the water?

1. I have NPS permit reservations; can I pickup the permits one or two days before, or must I wait until the morning of our hike?
2. Elaina at NRMG suggested I should rent/bring gear (harness, biners, belay device) for all five members of our group to minimize delays at the obstacles. Do you agree, or could we get by sharing two or three sets of gear?
3. I expect that NRMG will include in my training what I should look for when inspecting anchors; should I expect acceptable anchors in Orderville? Is there particular gear (webbing, slings, etc.) I should bring as a contingency?
4. Anyone planning to hike Orderville on July 10th?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

I have done Orderville once before, after having completed Birch Hollow. We went down and out Orderville. Doing it in July, I would not think that you would need any wetsuits, but that would depend upon the finickiness of the group.

As others have mentioned, the summer is a busy time for the Narrows and for Orderville. I would pick them up the day before.

Since we were coming down from Birch Hollow, we ALL had harnesses. But I would think that sharing would work fine.

There are not many webbing/anchor points for Orderville. I always carry some webbing for use on any hike if needed.

I hope to get down to Zion in August.

[ratagonia]

Isaac from Zion Ponderosa guided us.

Kip

Cool.

I should point out that my earlier comment about our (ZAC) permit not allowing us to depart from clients in a Wilderness setting is part of our Zion National Park (guided hiking) permit. I have no knowledge as to the permit restrictions on the BLM land east of the Park where Birch Hollow is, and want to make it clear that, if I did so, impugning that other guides were violating their permit obligations was not within the realm of what I know to be true or untrue, and thus inappropriate.

But Birch was enough, right? Nice canyon, eh? I can tell you, it is a LONG way from Birch out, down Orderville.

Tom

[Rudyo]

I just read the thread...great info on Orderville, especially for someone like me that hasn't done it.
Can someone clarify though the shuttle and approach to it? We will probably do the drive ourselves and then retrieve the vehicle later (yeah we are sort of cheap these days... )
The thread mentions "Tom's ATV route"...or was that for Birch only? I may have misread or misunderstood that part. Or is that referring to the trail past the parking lot that some guides say can be traversed with a 4x4 vehicle for up to 2 miles?
Has that been doable recently or maybe it is in rough shape with the recent weather.

Look like a great hike!

[ratagonia]

I just read the thread...great info on Orderville, especially for someone like me that hasn't done it.
Can someone clarify though the shuttle and approach to it? We will probably do the drive ourselves and then retrieve the vehicle later (yeah we are sort of cheap these days... )
The thread mentions "Tom's ATV route"...or was that for Birch only? I may have misread or misunderstood that part. Or is that referring to the trail past the parking lot that some guides say can be traversed with a 4x4 vehicle for up to 2 miles?
Has that been doable recently or maybe it is in rough shape with the recent weather.

Look like a great hike!

Yes, the "Tom's ATV Route" is the walking route into Birch Hollow as detailed in the Book.

A normal place to start Orderville is from the corral area just off the North Fork road, with signs supplied by the BLM, and a gate on the "Jeep Trail" down to the canyon itself. This is called "The Corral", or "The Orderville Corral". If doing Orderville, it is not so very onerous to start here, and it sure makes the shuttle easier at the end of the day.

The "Jeep Trail" really has only one or two bad spots, but they are right near the top. The worst spot is a rocky climb up boulders, with a fall-off into a deep rut on the right, just wide enough for my station wagon. Did make it in my high-clearance, big-tire 2WD Pathfinder, but I really cannot recommend it for anything but a 4WD big-tire capable vehicle. Subarus need not apply. Having two capable vehicles allows you to drive to the "End of the Road", saving about an hour of downhill walking.

If you have only ONE capable vehicle, you could pack everyone in there and drive them to the End of the Road, then have your Steve-Jackson_lookalike-contest-winner drive the vehicle up to the Corral, and run back and catch up.

Getting an early start for Orderville is a really good idea. These road closures this year might make that difficult.

Tom