Canyon Graffiti in Birch Hollow June 22, 2010

[Cirrus2000]

Math is hard

Oh dear - a girl talking. How about science? Maybe Home Economics would be a better path...

Funny stuff, playing off of stereotypes. Yeah sarahlizzy, don't just come play when you have trips in the offing - hang out with us all the time, here in the cool kids club!

[sarahlizzy]

OK!

Now I just have to deal with my work backlog, and my taxes, and get rid of this annoying jetlag, and then I should have some trip photos to post :)

[Jaxx]

Gosh, I'm sure we wouldn't want *that*

P.S. I'm sure we have female scout leaders here in the UK, and it doesn't seem to create "other complications"

P.P.S. Unless I'm mistaken about what "other complications" might be hinting at, would it be OK if the woman in question was gay? Just asking.

P.P.P.P.P.S. Math is hard and I broke a nail in Behunin. My life is over. *woe*

The complications would be that girls can't do things as well as boys. Girls are weak and shouldn't be in the outdoors. They are the lesser sex and should stay at home with the kids where they belong!

Just kidding. I think women can be awesome leaders. I hope that isn't what you thought I meant.
The complication would mostly be from sleeping arrangements but other stuff could come up. If you have girls in a troop aged 12-14 then there would need to be a woman leader to deal with girl stuff. I never want to be the person to explain to a girl what is happening to her body when she has her first period...AWKWARD! The boys would not be able to concentrate on anything and they would be showing off to the extreme if a woman or girl were present. Girls are allowed in the older troops. Not in LDS sponsored troops because the young women do their own "scouts"
If you have a woman leader then that leaves the door open for inappropriate behavior between other male leaders or scouts. Not because women are at fault but stuff happens. I know my wife doesn't want me camping with another woman once a month and a week during summer long term camp. It just creates a different set of issues that make one more thing to deal with.
On the same note if you have a gay leader or scout you have to deal with that like you would a woman. He would have to have his own sleeping arrangements, which leaders do already, but you would also have to make sure there is always another leader with that leader. I wouldn't worry as much about him coming on to a scout but more if there was an accusation against that gay leader and no one else to back him up. If it was his word against a scout he would be toast. Why put someone in that position?

I believe woman are, in many cases, the stronger sex. My wife is the most amazing person I know and I would never belittle or disrespect her or another woman. Please don't think I am some redneck heman woman hater club member.

[hank moon]

Jaxx

These "complications" are self-created and self-perpetuating by the divisions inherent in the culture. If these divisions were properly erased, a different culture would emerge in which these complications would mostly disappear.

What are some of the long-term benefits (to you, to others, etc.) of perpetuating these divisions? One short term benefit is obvious: self-protection from the complications of transition to a different cultural/relational experience (i.e. remaining in one's comfort zone).

[Scott Card]

"Divisions", "Complications" or differences exist. Erasing them is not the answer. The issue is how do we judge and how do we respond.

There. I have nibbled at the bait and now I will swim away.

And my oh my are we far away from the original topic...... as usual.

[rcwild]

These "complications" are self-created and self-perpetuating by the divisions inherent in the culture. If these divisions were properly erased, a different culture would emerge in which these complications would mostly disappear.

Canyoneering. Lots of "experts" trying various social experiments over the past 3-4 decades. Canyoneering. Has our society improved as a result? Canyoneering. If you believe yes, by what measure? Canyoneering. Crime rates? Drug use? Alcoholism? Canyoneering. Suicide rates? Self-esteem? Self-reliance? Canyoneering.

[hank moon]

Social experiments are useless and only create more problems. These "complications" will only disappear on a societal/cultural level when divisions are removed on a personal level. Not to pick on Jaxx, but just for example:

I never want to be the person to explain to a girl what is happening to her body when she has her first period...AWKWARD!

Sure, but why is that? Obviously this is a "learned" awkwardness (aka conditioning), inherited from parents and peers. This awkwardness would probably be shared by the girl for the same reason. Is this situation necessary or beneficial?

Canyoneering. Birch. Fruit bat.

[rcwild]

Canyoneering. Birch. Fruit bat.

Fruit bats have nothing to do with canyoneering, Hank. Get back on topic.

[hank moon]

Fruit bats have nothing to do with canyoneering, Hank. Get back on topic.

Huh. Obviously you've never canyon'd in Oz!

[Scott Card]

Canyoneering. Lots of "experts" trying various social experiments over the past 3-4 decades. Canyoneering. Has our society improved as a result? Canyoneering. If you believe yes, by what measure? Canyoneering. Crime rates? Drug use? Alcoholism? Canyoneering. Suicide rates? Self-esteem? Self-reliance? Canyoneering.

[rcwild]

Huh. Obviously you've never canyon'd in Oz!

Land down under Oz. Yes. Yellow brick road emerald city Oz. No.

[Randi]

Land down under Oz. Yes. Yellow brick road emerald city Oz. No.

I don't think Hank was talking bout Yellow Brick Road Emerald City Oz...
Otherwise he would've said:

Canyoneering. Birch. Flying Monkey.

[rcwild]

Don't be so sure, Randi. Look closely at the singer on the left. That's definitely Hank.

[bigred72]

That's what she said...

[trackrunner]

What he said...........

It was an adult. One of the dad's that came along on the trip. Not a Scout leader.

What he said^^^^^^^^^

[bigred72]

Just curious, was it ever confirmed that it was the adult who carved into the rock? This sounds exactly like something kids would do, maybe while the adult wasn't supervising.

What he said...

[trackrunner]

It was an adult. One of the dad's that came along on the trip. Not a Scout leader.

what he said^^^^

confirmed in the ACA canyon forum. someone was able to track down the party and they admitted to it. confirmed it was an adult father not a scout or scout leader.

[accadacca]

The Internet sleuths strike again...

[Sombeech]

what he said^^^^

confirmed in the ACA canyon forum. someone was able to track down the party and they admitted to it. confirmed it was an adult father not a scout or scout leader.

[Randi]

Don't be so sure, Randi. Look closely at the singer on the left. That's definitely Hank.

Yeah ~ That does look like Hank! And the middle one looks like YOU! And holy mackerel - the one on the right, looks EXACTLY like Mike! So you guys spent some time together in the Emerald City huh? I take it that was before you were into canyoneering; hence the fact that you've never canyoned there. So you guys knew each other 'before' you became canyoneers? You became friends back when the three of you were lollipop salesman?
COOL! I guess........Kinda weird too!
But truth is stranger than fiction they say...