Auto-Locking vs. Screwgate

[ratagonia]

I turned this thread into a poll because I was curious who used what....

I've always preferred auto-lockers because I have less problems with them, and they are much easier to operate one handed.... but after reading this thread I think I might be in the minority....

There is not a right or wrong answer, despite what some might tell you.... and your vote is anonymous.....

Please add two-biners-with-reversed gates to the poll.

Opinion (IMNEHO): if I see auto-locking biners on peoples' harnesses, I take it as a sign they have never been in a Utah canyon before. A little grit and they stop working. Closed, open, whatever, they STOP WORKING and become useless. Some biners become "group gear" as they are shared for setting up biner blocks, clipping ropes, zipping packs, anchoring ropes, etc. If someone hands me an autolock for this purpose, I am tempted to throw it away - but now in my elder-wisdom phase, I just hand it back to them "what is this?". Not good for group gear because you have to know how to use it, and practice. When my hands or cold or wearing gloves etc, I am not interested in spending time and effort to figure out how to open their darn biner!

For my belay biner when climbing - autolock for sure. But only I use it, and it is used for one purpose.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Please add two-biners-with-reversed gates to the poll.

Opinion (IMNEHO): if I see auto-locking biners on peoples' harnesses, I take it as a sign they have never been in a Utah canyon before. A little grit and they stop working. Closed, open, whatever, they STOP WORKING and become useless.

Yeah.... I've hardly done any Utah canyons.

I have more problems with the screw-gates collecting grit and sticking..... Your Mileage May Vary...

As I said.... I was more interested in hearing what people were actually using.... and not a lecture on why everyone not parroting Tom was using the wrong type....

[ratagonia]

Yeah.... I've hardly done any Utah canyons.

I have more problems with the screw-gates collecting grit and sticking..... Your Mileage May Vary...

As I said.... I was more interested in hearing what people were actually using.... and not a lecture on why everyone not parroting Tom was using the wrong type....

Awwwww, poor shane....

T

[Iceaxe]

Whatever the heck this biner is (Petzl Williams Tri-act?) they are awesome.... Hank gave me a bunch of them about 5 or 6 years ago and I love them. I've never had one stick. They are also simple and easy for my kids to operate. The kids are always having problems with screw-gates because they stick or get tightened to much for them to release....

Which brings up anther question.... why do some people think that a screw-gate has to be screwed shut really tight to work? I see this all the time when someone is helping a noob or kid... and I know the kids will never be able to release the biner on their own.

[oval]

I'd happy contribute if you add 2 opposite and opposed biners, like Tom said :D

[hank moon]

Whatever the heck this biner is (Petzl Williams Tri-act?) they are awesome.... Hank gave me a bunch of them about 5 or 6 years ago and I love them. I've never had one stick. They are also simple and easy for my kids to operate. The kids are always having problems with screw-gates because they stick or get tightened to much for them to release....

Which brings up anther question.... why do some people think that a screw-gate has to be screwed shut really tight to work? I see this all the time when someone is helping a noob or kid... and I know the kids will never be able to release the biner on their own.

Yeah, that Petzl Tri Act mechanism is the most grit-resistant I've seen (even better than Petzl screwgate). Not sure why.

[Iceaxe]

I'd happy contribute if you add 2 opposite and opposed biners, like Tom said :D

I tried but I can't figure out how to edit a poll... this new control panel has a lot more buttons then the old one had...

So I guess the question is, which do you prefer if you have to use one of the two choices listed.

[Brian in SLC]

Here are a few of my favorite things...



The HB is my current. The DMM's with the plastic twist locks are a bit grooved out, but, the action functions better than I remember. Still fully functional. The grit must have flushed out of them, as I remember at least one was a manual twist locker. Strange.

Possibly proof I've never been in a Utah canyon...

Pretty difficult to figure out how to use, too. You twist it, opens. Let it go, closes. Yeah, super complicated.

Har har.

[hank moon]

Brian, i have a couple or 3 of those DMM you can have if ya want... LMK

[John Peterson]

No gym in Utah, to my knowledge.

I can think of only a couple, maybe one or two gyms, that have folks clip into a carabiner for top roping. One was for use with an auto belay device, the other was a gym which had Gri Gri's permanently attached for belay for the top ropes.

Pretty rare for folks to not tie straight into a rope in the climbing gym.

iRock in Ogden has all of their TRs set up for an 8-on-a-bight. When I've climbed there I don't mind clipping in. You don't take any more load off of a TR fall on a static rope (assuming your belayer is paying attention) than you do on your belay loop from a bouncy rappel.

My only input regarding locking biners (and I'm still very much a canyon n00b) is thinking back to the first rap I did into deep, cold, fast-moving water with 50' of rope churning beneath me, and having a bitch of a time opening the screwgate biner while keeping my head above water and legs untangled. Rappel dependent, going unlocked is an option too...

[rcwild]

My only input regarding locking biners (and I'm still very much a canyon n00b) is thinking back to the first rap I did into deep, cold, fast-moving water with 50' of rope churning beneath me, and having a bitch of a time opening the screwgate biner while keeping my head above water and legs untangled. Rappel dependent, going unlocked is an option too...

The situation you describe has killed numerous canyoneers around the world. Better to set the rope length to the water level and use a releasable tie-in, i.e. munter-mule with safety or locked off rappel device.

[hank moon]

i wonder...out of those preferring screwgates, how many base that preference on extensive use of both types of carabiner (screwgate and autolock)?

[denaliguide]

i wonder...out of those preferring screwgates, how many base that preference on extensive use of both types of carabiner (screwgate and autolock)?

me, but mostly in alpine and rock environs.

[jman]

The situation you describe has killed numerous canyoneers around the world. Better to set the rope length to the water level and use a releasable tie-in, i.e. munter-mule with safety or locked off rappel device.

I agree. And they are easy to set up too.

[xxnitsuaxx]

Rappel dependent, going unlocked is an option too...

Thank you for spelling dependent correctly. I've almost started believing it should be dependant. You're restoring my hope in humanity.

[John Peterson]

Thank you for spelling dependent correctly. I've almost started believing it should be dependant. You're restoring my hope in humanity.

My favorite locally is "Zion's National Park." Also 'irregardless.'

[hank moon]

My favorite locally is "Zion's National Park." Also 'irregardless.'

Stop wasting time - buy now!

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...body-wants-one!

[unripecoconut]

I'm glad I ran across this old thread. I've used ball-locks in Zion and in SoCal and really had no major problems with them. Like any locker, they can get gritty and sometimes need a run back and forth under water to clean them out.

Tom is right that shared gear is better when standardized. Few people know how to open a ball lock quickly and autolockers come in many flavors.

At the same time, I won't bother using a screwgate unless absolutely needed...I've caught more people with unscrewed screwgates on rappel than I care to talk about.

We shall see, this year in Zion, I'm really going to give my ball-locks a rough time.

[moabmatt]

I use a steel, autolocking oval for my rappel and belay biner. Had it for years and it just won't wear out, even when paired with a tube-type or pirana rap device on wet, sandy ropes. In addition to its durability, I enjoy the efficiency of it. When belaying, I can unlock/lock the belay rope so much faster than screwgates. This does save a lot of time when guiding large groups. I have had the sleeve stick on me a time or two from grit and sand, but it's usually pretty easy to clear. Just pay attention to things like this and realize that most devices have pros and cons. Few things, if any, are failproof.

[ratagonia]

Tom is right that ...

Thank you for your post, sir, and welcome to the Bogley.

At the same time, I won't bother using a screwgate unless absolutely needed...I've caught more people with unscrewed screwgates on rappel than I care to talk about.

I am unclear on what you are saying here: don't use locking biners; or don't find screwgates reliable... ?

Tom