Canyoneering Credentials

[rcwild]

Tom, you might want to reconcile your bios. The one on ZAC says you started canyoneering in 1999, which jives with the two years experience you had when you attended my basic course in 2001. But the bio in the back of your book, published in 2006, says you've been exploring the canyons of Zion for 20 years. Typo?

[ratagonia]

Tom, you might want to reconcile your bios. The one on ZAC says you started canyoneering in 1999, which jives with the two years experience you had when you attended my basic course in 2001. But the bio in the back of your book, published in 2006, says you've been exploring the canyons of Zion for 20 years. Typo?

Technical canyoneering - started 1999. Non-technical canyons in Zion - first trip 1986. No typo. The two statements are both true.

T

[rcwild]

Technical canyoneering - started 1999. Non-technical canyons in Zion - first trip 1986. No typo. The two statements are both true.

Just like Shane. You guys have even more in common than I realized.

Consider rewriting this line on your ZAC bio: "I have been exploring canyons, leading trips, and avoiding epics (mostly) since 1999." You should use 1986.

As it's written now, compared to the line in your book bio -- "Tom Jones has been exploring the canyons of Zion for 20 years." -- it's impossible to distinguish between your non-technical and technical experience. I'm not the first to notice the discrepancy.

[Brian in SLC]

Just like Shane. You guys have even more in common than I realized.

Ha! Nice zinger angry red head. Now where's your doppleganger photo at...

As it's written now, compared to the line in your book bio -- "Tom Jones has been exploring the canyons of Zion for 20 years." -- it's impossible to distinguish between your non-technical and technical experience. I'm not the first to notice the discrepancy.

The book, I seem to recall, has both technical and non technical routes. His ZAC bio would only be for technical?

[Cirrus2000]

[ratagonia]

Just like Shane. You guys have even more in common than I realized.

Consider rewriting this line on your ZAC bio: "I have been exploring canyons, leading trips, and avoiding epics (mostly) since 1999." You should use 1986.

As it's written now, compared to the line in your book bio -- "Tom Jones has been exploring the canyons of Zion for 20 years." -- it's impossible to distinguish between your non-technical and technical experience. I'm not the first to notice the discrepancy.

Maybe you should be working on your book, Rich, rather than picking nits with other people's work.

[Brian in SLC]

Rich, aka Tron Guy!



Guess you gave up the mountain man outfit?

Har har.

[Pubalz]

I think that suit is just a little to tight or maybe its painted on

[rcwild]

Ha! Nice zinger angry red head.

Brian, you were mistaken to assume I meant that as a zinger. It just struck me as I read Tom's reply just how much they have in common. Think about it ...

They have both been "exploring canyons" for 20-ish years. When discrepancies in their bios are questioned, they both have the same explanation - They've been doing technical canyons since the late 90's and have been doing non-technical canyons for 20-ish years.

They have both done many many canyons in Utah, including quite a few first descents.

They both made names for themselves peddling canyon beta and have published beta online and in guidebooks.

There are people pissed off at both of them for publishing beta for canyons they promised not to and others pissed because neither of them gave any credit in their books to those who told them about certain canyons.

They have both promoted Zion as the "mecca of American canyoneering" and both blame the proliferation of bolts (and not the proliferation of beta) as the major contributing cause to over-crowding in canyons. And they both complain that "their friends" (they are both very well-connected) at Zion NPS are incompetent land managers.

They are both engineers with very good problem-solving and technical canyoneering skills.

They both started out as hardcore PRO bolt and both changed their positions when pressured by the SCC. They have gone on to become very hardcore ANTI bolt and have successfully descended some very difficult canyons sans bolts (as long as they brought someone along to serve as rope gun).

I have been told at various times by various people here on Bogley that they are the two most technically competent canyoneers in the U.S.

Indeed, they have much in common and much to be proud about. They have come a far piece over the past few years.

[ratagonia]

Brian, you were mistaken to assume I meant that as a zinger. It just struck me as I read Tom's reply just how much they have in common. Think about it ...

They have both been "exploring canyons" for 20-ish years. When discrepancies in their bios are questioned, they both have the same explanation - They've been doing technical canyons since the late 90's and have been doing non-technical canyons for 20-ish years.

They have both done many many canyons in Utah, including quite a few first descents.

They both made names for themselves peddling canyon beta and have published beta online and in guidebooks.

There are people pissed off at both of them for publishing beta for canyons they promised not to and others pissed because neither of them gave any credit in their books to those who told them about certain canyons.

They have both promoted Zion as the "mecca of American canyoneering" and both blame the proliferation of bolts (and not the proliferation of beta) as the major contributing cause to over-crowding in canyons. And they both complain that "their friends" (they are both very well-connected) at Zion NPS are incompetent land managers.

They are both engineers with very good problem-solving and technical canyoneering skills.

They both started out as hardcore PRO bolt and both changed their positions when pressured by the SCC. They have gone on to become very hardcore ANTI bolt and have successfully descended some very difficult canyons sans bolts (as long as they brought someone along to serve as rope gun).

I have been told at various times by various people here on Bogley that they are the two most technically competent canyoneers in the U.S.

Indeed, they have much in common and much to be proud about. They have come a far piece over the past few years.

[ratagonia]

The book, I seem to recall, has both technical and non technical routes. His ZAC bio would only be for technical?

Bingo. Give that man a cookie!

Tom

[Scott P]

Technical canyoneering - started 1999. Non-technical canyons in Zion - first trip 1986.

The rest of this thread is garbage, but I just realized that I started doing canyon in Zion before Tom. I never knew that. Now I feel extra special.

[MSchasch]

[Iceaxe]

Credentials = backstage pass that allows groupies to meet the talent.

[Don]

The rest of this thread is garbage, but I just realized that I started doing canyon in Zion before Tom. I never knew that. Now I feel extra special.

Oh, hell yeah. I did Orderville in scouts, that would have been '86 or '87 maybe. I'm going to drop the bullshit humility about being a beginner and start calling myself and old pro.

[ratagonia]

Brian, you were mistaken to assume I meant that as a zinger. It just struck me as I read Tom's reply just how much they have in common. Think about it ...

Anywhere else in the Canyoneering Universe, being likened to Gandalf the Grey would be a dire insult. Here on Bogley - Why, thank you Rich. But really, Shane is much better at telling a story than I am.

Tom

[Scott Card]

x2

x2

[Spidey]

What all of you grey beards need to realize, is that you have long since been passed by. By who you ask, the younger stronger and better looking canyoneers that have no Bios, and are far less cantankerous. And besides my BIO is bigger than yours.

[Iceaxe]

I have a lot of fun exploring slots.... and that's the only Bio that is important to me....

I'm sure Rich remembers what it was like to actually do canyons.... back in the good old days when he would occasionally venture into a slot instead of hanging at the lodge/hotel all day drinking adult beverages.......

[forum8fox]

Entertaining to say the least, I like spideys post the best... I concur...