WCCM Canyon Rating System

[Scott Card]

(Point of etiquette for the less-initiated: Yes, I take a shot at friend Shane every chance I get, because that is a well-established sport here on Bogley. No, I never take shots at Mark, 'cause he's such a nice fellow, and, unlike that other fellow, is never "full of himself". And plenty of people take shots at me, also a well-established sport here).

Tom

Kinda like shootin' skeet. Tom..... pull.....bam... Shane...pull......bam.... it's all good entertainment.


As for the rating systems, what ever system, I find them all lacking to a point but very helpful. I know that who I am with makes a BIG difference as to difficulty... I call it the Spidey factor. (or insert Ram, Tom... others who I have gone with that make the canyon less imposing) A couple of teenagers I have taken in canyons have upped the rating of difficulty. They kept trying to get hurt.... Also, There is a huge difference between leading and following in a canyon. I know when I started this sport over a decade ago (sounds like a longer time to say decade) I paid very close attention to the ratings. I was figuring out what they meant, what consistency I could see from one canyon to another based on ratings. Then I went to the North Wash. Now I look at the ratings and seek specific beta on the crux(s) of the canyon. I also pay attention to who is going. The ratings are meaningful but so too (maybe more so) is the specific beta. Also experience in a Zion canyon is not the same as a North Wash canyon. All class 3's are not created equally. Knowing the areas of the plateau is helpful. All class 4's are not created equally. Again a 4 in Zion is not a 4 in the the North Wash or Escalante. I know that the rating system accounts for the different challenges but thinking that you did Imlay qualifies you to do Sandthrax? Well, no. I like the PG/R/X ratings. I like better a description of what the R or X means in that canyon from someone I trust. In short, the ratings system, any rating system is but one important factor in my decision about going in, who I go with, what gear... etc.

[Brian in SLC]

Keyhole is a grade I, Pine Creek is a grade II or III. Grades used to mean something in climbing, not so much any more, because of the wide variation in skill and speed among climbers. We don't emphasize grades much in our rating system, but they do count. What is the difference between Keyhole and Pine Creek? Not so much the skills required, more the time AND COMMITMENT = the grade.

Most competent parties "should" be able to do Keyhole in under an hour, and, Pine Creek inside of 2 to 3 hours. That really makes both of them Grade I gigs, with, the combination of both a grade 11.

Grade II is half a day. No way Pine Creek alone should take folks half a day.

-Brian in SLC

[Randi]

Most competent parties "should" be able to do Keyhole in under an hour, and, Pine Creek inside of 2 to 3 hours. That really makes both of them Grade I gigs, with, the combination of both a grade 11.

Grade II is half a day. No way Pine Creek alone should take folks half a day.

-Brian in SLC

Pine Creek once took me 6 hours to do!
Maybe we should add an "L" designation to the ratings to denote the 'linger' factor! :)

[Brian in SLC]

Pine Creek once took me 6 hours to do!
Maybe we should add an "L" designation to the ratings to denote the 'linger' factor! :)

Sure!

But...grades don't take into account folks taking half day naps, parties trading harnesses, catered lunches or, outside the bell curve speedy parties doin' Pine Creek in scant minutes either.

Should be the time an average, competent group would expect to take to do the canyon.

If folks' averages are much more than that, then, it might reflect on their not being of average competency. Which I suspect is the case for quite a large number of parties that do Pine Creek.

Still wantin' to get my time sub 1 hour for Pine Creek. 1:01 is my fastest. Maybe this year will be my year...ha ha.

Actually, would be fun to do at Midnight...

-Brian in SLC

[Randi]

Sure!

But...grades don't take into account folks taking half day naps, parties trading harnesses, catered lunches or, outside the bell curve speedy parties doin' Pine Creek in scant minutes either.

Should be the time an average, competent group would expect to take to do the canyon.

If folks' averages are much more than that, then, it might reflect on their not being of average competency. Which I suspect is the case for quite a large number of parties that do Pine Creek.

Still wantin' to get my time sub 1 hour for Pine Creek. 1:01 is my fastest. Maybe this year will be my year...ha ha.

Actually, would be fun to do at Midnight...

-Brian in SLC

Fun to do at midnight while trying to beat your fastest time? :)
I like doing canyons at night - reminds me of caving!

[hank moon]

That final rappel in Pine Creek scares me if I think about it too much..... The problem, at least for me, is you must totally commit when you swing out over the void. If something is messed up you are going straight to the bottom.

A simple practice to avoid this (needless) commitment: weight your rap system while attached to the anchor with a safety leash. If all looks good, unclip the safety leash and go. This is common practice in many Euro canyons where it it essential to be clipped in before attaching a rap device (due to exposed anchor placement).

Well-placed (often exposed) anchors reduce rock damage while making pulls easier and rope recovery more reliable - BIG benefit!

[hank moon]

Most competent parties "should" be able to do Keyhole in under an hour, and, Pine Creek inside of 2 to 3 hours. That really makes both of them Grade I gigs, with, the combination of both a grade 11.

Grade II is half a day. No way Pine Creek alone should take folks half a day.

-Brian in SLC

and....the "committing" part of PC arguably ends after the last rap. nearly half of the trip time is the exit hike...

[Iceaxe]

You, Shane, can always rappel off the arch, if your skill level is so low that you struggle with the 'new' anchor. I usually toss a sling or rope end around the small arch and use that as a safety. Reduces the woozy factor.

A simple practice to avoid total commitment: weight your rap system while attached to the anchor with a safety leash. If all looks good, unclip the safety leash and go.

While these are all wonderful suggestions..... none of them are going to reduce or eliminate the high number of accidents and rescues that keep occurring at the final rappel.....

The point I'm trying to make.... and it appears I'm doing a poor job so far..... is that if a specific rappel is responsible for a large number of accidents and rescues maybe its time to re-examine that rappel? Or figure out how to educate the noob's that keep cratering in....


As for me personally there is no help.... I don't really like to rappel..... but I figure it's just part of the package.... I also don't like paying for dinner at a nice restaurant, but if it leads to wild sex with my hot young stripper wife then I'm all for it.

[Randi]

I also don't like paying for dinner at a nice restaurant, but if it leads to wild sex with my hot young stripper wife then I'm all for it.

If you have to resort to bribery, you're doing something wrong!
I'm just sayin....

[Iceaxe]

If you have to resort to bribery, you're doing something wrong!
I'm just sayin....

I prefer to think of dinner and drinks as "The Short Cut"....

[Brian in SLC]

While these are all wonderful suggestions..... none of them are going to reduce or eliminate the high number of accidents and rescues that keep occurring at the final rappel.....

The point I'm trying to make.... and it appears I'm doing a poor job so far..... is that if a specific rappel is responsible for a large number of accidents and rescues maybe its time to re-examine that rappel? Or figure out how to educate the noob's that keep cratering in...

Its a tough spot, to be sure. The configuration of that rappel makes it difficult to ease into it, as well as provide a good top belay. You kinda go from 0 to 90 all of a sudden.

I really think most folks don't have that much experience with that type of rappel. Single skinny rap, free air, right off the anchor. Not a ton of places to practise a full 100 foot free air rappel like that.

I don't think that moving the anchor over really had much effect. You still step off and, whoosh.

Very out of character with the rest of the rappels in the canyon, and, the last one (smellin' the barn effect) too.

Hard to lower someone. Hard to belay from the top. Almost hard to coach and see the set up prior to lanuch. Not very tolerant of even minor mistakes.

Maybe explore a walk around? Or, an alternate rappel spot that isn't so...exposed? Dunno.

Bit of a noob eater, for sure.

Edit to add: maybe a belay station (even a tree or natural anchor above the launch point?) could become standard for the start of the rappel for folks not comfy?

Short cut...funny...!

-Brian in SLC

[moab mark]

Although I've heard remarks here & there about the ACA rating system needing improvement, it IS the standard here in the US.
The WCCM in my opinion just seems to confuse the issue and sounds like some kind of ploy. These people who came up with this method seem to want to tout the fact that 'they' not the "ACA' set the standard.

That's ridiculous!

They're just adding confusion to a simple established system!
WCCM should stand for Worthlessly Confusing Canyoneers Method

Totally agree
Mark

[moab mark]

We have moved off from WCCM rating system but Tom where is this horn you are using in regards to the anchor? Without the webbing headache do the groups you have taken prefer it over the original anchor? Easier start, free hang, I love the free hang part just not the parachute jump at the start. First time I did it, Scott Holley made me go off from a standing position NOW I SIT. I swung underneath and about wet myself.
Mark

[ratagonia]

We have moved off from WCCM rating system but Tom where is this horn you are using in regards to the anchor? Without the webbing headache do the groups you have taken prefer it over the original anchor? Easier start, free hang, I love the free hang part just not the parachute jump at the start. First time I did it, Scott Holley made me go off from a standing position NOW I SIT. I swung underneath and about wet myself.
Mark

It is the HUGE rock that chocks the entire canyon. If you walk out to the front of it, there are nice scoops to use for walking on, quite comfortable though quite exposed. A huge sling goes around the entire top of the rock. People get antsy, so we usually have someone clip into the sling as a meat anchor backup on the up-canyon side of the sling. 40 feet I think, will do it. The launch is a little more conventional than the other. The group still has to do the downclimb to get out, which looks MUCH harder than it actually is. Could be meat anchored for the kids. The rappel is quite pretty, dropping into the nice grotto under the huge boulder. A little easier start, then free hang to the ground. 80 feet.

Tom

[moab mark]

I read somewhere where a couple of new bolts were placed in Refrigerator how about a couple of new ones in Pine Creek???????? Just a thought.

[Ryebrye]

I read somewhere where a couple of new bolts were placed in Refrigerator how about a couple of new ones in Pine Creek???????? Just a thought.

Bolts? In a Zion canyon? Unthinkable

[Randi]

Sure!

But...grades don't take into account folks taking half day naps, parties trading harnesses, catered lunches

Yeah, I totally know what you mean...

[Cirrus2000]

Extreme napping roolz!