Canyoning Tech Tips

[Iceaxe]

Petzl Canyoning Tech Tips
http://www.petzl.com/files/all/en/ac...-canyoning.pdf

A lot of good information is stuffed into this small document, including information on how to solve several scenario's recently discussed on Bogley.

[ScoutColorado]

Thanks Ice

[Iceaxe]

Just a heads up.... Petzl has posted an updated PDF file with revised Canyoning Tech Tips.

http://www.petzl.com/files/all/en/ac...-canyoning.pdf

I noticed the suggested method of blocking a rope (Biner Block) to rappel single strand has been revised. Info on a guided rappel has been added.

[moab mark]

On the guided rappel it looks like they are using a munter hitch? Is this a common way of setting up a guided rappel? What's the benefit of clipping the rappel strand to the anchor?

Mark

[Iceaxe]

It appears they used a knot block at the top and a munter at the bottom to tension the guide line. I've never found it necessary to use anything other then brute strength to tension the guide line, but if the rappel were shallow I can understand why you would need to use a mechanical advantage to tension the guide line.

The rappel strand is clipped so that they can maintain control of the rope after the guide line is released.

It makes more sense if you picture the guided rappel set up over a deep yawning chasm and not the typical small pothole we normally use them for.

[trackrunner]

To me, looking at the munter mule on the guide it appears to be a releasable, a way to lower someone down. Example person on rappel gets hair, shirt, etc caught someone could release it and lower the individual to the ground.

Something to consider, guided rappels are often used to overcome an obstacle (examples: pothole, hydraulic in a class C canyon, keep Tanya dry). If you released the munter mule the individual may end up in the pothole, hydraulic, or Tanya goes for a swim

[rcwild]

To me, looking at the munter mule on the guide it appears to be a releasable, a way to lower someone down. Example person on rappel gets hair, shirt, etc caught someone could release it and lower the individual to the ground.

It depends. The guide rope is the hypotenuse -- the long side of a right-angle triangle. Whether or not you can get them to the ground by releasing the guide rope depends where they are on the guide rope at the time. In addition, you would have to use two separate ropes; one for the guide and one for rappel. Very unlikely someone would get their hair/shirt stuck in the guide rope (beyond their own ability to get it out). If they get stuck, it will most likely be on the rappel rope. If the rappel rope is releasable on top, you can lower the person to the ground still suspended on the guide rope.

Releasability at the bottom anchor can come in handy in a couple circumstances. (1) Less-than-perfect anchors. Release to make the angle of the loaded V more acute to lessen tension on the anchors. (2) When the guide rope angle is very steep. Person on rope loses control, you can release the munter and change the V angle to slow them down. You can also use it to control their landing spot.

[trackrunner]

It depends. The guide rope is the hypotenuse -- the long side of a right-angle triangle. Whether or not you can get them to the ground by releasing the guide rope depends where they are on the guide rope at the time. In addition, you would have to use two separate ropes; one for the guide and one for rappel. Very unlikely someone would get their hair/shirt stuck in the guide rope (beyond their own ability to get it out). If they get stuck, it will most likely be on the rappel rope. If the rappel rope is releasable on top, you can lower the person to the ground still suspended on the guide rope.

Releasability at the bottom anchor can come in handy in a couple circumstances. (1) Less-than-perfect anchors. Release to make the angle of the loaded V more acute to lessen tension on the anchors. (2) When the guide rope angle is very steep. Person on rope loses control, you can release the munter and change the V angle to slow them down. You can also use it to control their landing spot.

Rich I was writing about this picture. looks like one rope, rappeling on the block side with a releasable at the bottom on the guide rope. If released wouldn't it lower the rappeler to the ground?

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: Here is the rest of the Petzl info... it is stated that a munter is used at the bottom. The reason for using a munter is never given.



OK?.... OK!.....

[rcwild]

Rich I was writing about this picture. looks like one rope, rappeling on the block side with a releasable at the bottom on the guide rope. If released wouldn't it lower the rappeler to the ground?

It still depends. How much rope do you have behind that munter? The setup illustrated seems backwards to me. I've typically used the tail of the rope for the guide rope and people rappel on the bag side.

Definitely some advantages to doing it as illustrated ... as long as you have plenty of rope available. Hmmmm ... I have that Petzl document and never looked very close at that illustration.

Old dog learning new trick.

[Iceaxe]

I've typically used the tail of the rope for the guide rope and people rappel on the bag side.

You have to rappel on the bag side... otherwise you can't retrieve your ropes because of the knot block. Any rope coiled on the ground after the munter would mostly likely just become a problem of tangled or snagged ropes..... unless I'm missing something....

[rcwild]

FWIW: Here is the rest of the Petzl info... it is stated that a munter is used at the bottom. The reason for using a munter is never given.

I have rigged them with releasable systems on the bottom, keeping X number of feet in reserve, for the reasons stated in previous post. I don't mind retrieving an extra 20-30 feet of rope, but I don't want to pull every foot of rope out of my bag.

This one has me a little stumped. Trying to work out the step-by-step. First person down, second person down, last person down. I may send the image to some friends in Europe to see if they know. Does Hank hang out here? Maybe he knows from his time at Petzl.