Subway / Buckskin conditions

[thecanyonwalker]

Hey,

I got a group of guys driving down from Calgary for the Subway next week - has anyone been through recently?

Any insight into conditions is greatly appreciated!

[trackrunner]

read a TR for a bottom up hike about a week ago. high water flow conditions right now. if coming from the top down you will need wetsuits and real "class c" skills to desend.

[ratagonia]

The snowmelt basin for the Subway is fairly small, so the water level changes rapidly. That said, it all has got to flow through keyhole falls, with you on rappel. And there might be logs there. I've got some friends going through this Saturday, will try to post a report from them.

Tom

[ststephen]

Hope it lessens in time for Family Fest...

[oldno7]

Small enough drainage for sure, the problem is that the upper reaches of said drainage are 7300' +. This area is still getting accumulations of snow. It has also been a relatively cool spring. The serious runoff has not yet begun. If we get rapid heating in May, the subway might be carving out a deeper "subway" section. This has been a classic set up for Southern Utah flooding so far. Cool Spring with continued snow accumulation, followed by a hotter than normal May=FLOOD. If May stays cool and we "gradually" warm up, all could be good.

[Bo_Beck]

Small enough drainage for sure, the problem is that the upper reaches of said drainage are 7300' +. This area is still getting accumulations of snow. It has also been a relatively cool spring. The serious runoff has not yet begun. If we get rapid heating in May, the subway might be carving out a deeper "subway" section. This has been a classic set up for Southern Utah flooding so far. Cool Spring with continued snow accumulation, followed by a hotter than normal May=FLOOD. If May stays cool and we "gradually" warm up, all could be good.

You are "DEAD-ON" Kurt! Might check these forecasts for "Springdale" and realize that higher ground will follow suit albeit a few degrees cooler.

http://www.accuweather.com/us/ut/spr...st-details.asp

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick...2=-112.998&e=0

[John Peterson]

Went top-down this past Sunday, the 25th. The permit desk said there may still be snowpack on the road into the trailhead and on the first mile before the slickrock descent, but this wasn't the case. The road was clear and the trail was mostly dry.

The permit desk also seemed concerned that we were going without drysuits, but the wetsuit was plenty, and a drysuit would have been overkill, I think. The water was a little faster and higher, and probably in the 40's, but nothing that complicated the hike too much. The rap right above the bowling ball was the sportiest given the volume and temperature of the water right there, and a quick release is crucial given the current right there. The keyhole rap had well-placed log going up to it, so we just rigged a rope for a handline and walked off the log.

The last few miles of the exit were slow-going as usual. Saw a few bottom-up hikers but no other top-downs that day.

[Iceaxe]

Awesome first post.

Welcome to Bogley....

Any pictures of the bowling ball or keyhole?

[John Peterson]

I didn't get too many photos taken that day, and none of bowling ball corridor. I need a better setup for my camera dry case. Regardless, here's the keyhole with the log positioned as shown. It was sturdy but I don't know how much longer it will stay there if the flow increases.

[Cirrus2000]

Cool! Welcome to Bogley!

[trackrunner]

Thanks for the TR and conditions. I hope you got pics of the Red Falls. So much better looking with high flow IMHO.

FYI for those going in high flow. in my hi flow epic for Keyhole falls rap we down-climbed into the arch then rapped through the arch safely. If the flow is too strong at the bowling ball corridor you can skip this on the shelf canyon left LDC and rap from a tree that will put you out of the corridor strong flow. Probably best to scout the corridor first in high strong flow before committing to the rap.

[jman]

wait a sec...so the falls with the arch/more like a window (the above pictures) IS Keyhole Falls? I thought the drop into the chokestone swim (there was 2 back in 2003 or 2004) was Keyhole falls. Plus, I thought that's what the topo reads... Perhaps I need to review the USGS map and figure it out.

Most people I've seen will put both arms around the window (the above picture) and dangle their feet, and then drop the 3+ feet on the sand bar, thus saving them a rappel (or high jump). But if you are inexperienced (or smart I suppose) don't do the last sentence. heh

John Peterson,
Those sound like the exact same conditions that I had when I went one time in early March of 2007. Lots of snow melt and streams coming down Russell Gulch. The rangers said there would be ice and lots of snow...nope....none! We did see ice, but only near the top at the entrance of the Subway, and it was in the shadows. We were expecting class C conditions. Nope. It looked just like it does in late summer conditions. 1st and 2nd pools were extra cold, but once you get to the famous log, the water heated up and it felt "normal" - we weren't even cold at all. We played in the Subway Shower room and went down the red-rock slide probably 5+ times, with only 3mm wetsuits on. Anyways, thanks for the conditions update!



Subway is the Classic canyon. I NEVER get tired talking about it and I and love it more and more every time I go (9 times and counting since 2003). Especially bringing noobs and just watching their faces thinking "ahh...this is just a simple hike with simple river walking and swimming" haha. Nope. I do wish I can experience the Subway in full force like trackrunner did in Class C conditions. That would be great! Speaking of which, do you still have pics online of that trip trackrunner? I wanna show my friend those.

[ratagonia]

wait a sec...so the falls with the arch/more like a window (the above pictures) IS Keyhole Falls? I thought the drop into the chokestone swim (there was 2 back in 2003 or 2004) was Keyhole falls. Plus, I thought that's what the topo reads... Perhaps I need to review the USGS map and figure it out.

Most people I've seen will put both arms around the window (the above picture) and dangle their feet, and then drop the 3+ feet on the sand bar, thus saving them a rappel (or high jump). But if you are inexperienced (or smart I suppose) don't do the last sentence. heh

There's nothing on the Topo Map. THE source for names would be the Green Book (Brereton and Dunaway), and YES, The Green Book calls that Keyhole Falls, you know, with the keyhole arch.

People CAN and DO descend this drop as stated - jump, grab, swing and drop. I've done that twice, and sprained my ankle twice (not badly). The landing is into frothy water maybe knee deep, and when I have done it, lots of round boulders. Very bad landing. None for me (anymore), thanks.

Without the log there, at this water level, looks like you get a full face shot. Coooooooold. There's some treacherous holes in the canyon floor just past the landing, hidden by the froth.

Caveat canonero!

Tom

[trackrunner]

Speaking of which, do you still have pics online of that trip trackrunner? I wanna show my friend those.

look under the trip report index sticky for April 2008 trip report. only a few pics on the second page.

[UtahAdventureGuide]

Got a permit for this Saturday but not sure if i'll be able to use it now. Kinda hoping there would be more water right now, Just not as fun unless it looks like this:

[ratagonia]

Got a permit for this Saturday but not sure if i'll be able to use it now. Kinda hoping there would be more water right now, Just not as fun unless it looks like this:

Hope your wife has Life Insurance. Whitewater with current and no helmet = "hope your wife has health insurance".

[ratagonia]

Hey,

I got a group of guys driving down from Calgary for the Subway next week - has anyone been through recently? Any insight into conditions is greatly appreciated!

Had a strong party turn back on the top-down Subway yesterday 5/6/2010 due to high water. They convinced a weak party to also turn back, or Bo would have gotten some more sports action.

Tom

[UtahAdventureGuide]

Got a helmet this year and no wife so I think i'm good :). Tom, we've got a spot open if you want to join us. I talked to the backcountry desk this morning and she said about 2/3 of the people turn around at keyhole falls.

[ratagonia]

Got a helmet this year and no wife so I think i'm good :). Tom, we've got a spot open if you want to join us. I talked to the backcountry desk this morning and she said about 2/3 of the people turn around at keyhole falls.

Interesting... I mean the people going through thing, not the you being single thing...

When you going? Tom

[UtahAdventureGuide]

we're driving down tonight at 4 so should be there before 10. problem is we need to stop by and get the permit tomorrow 7:00 am. we want to get an early start.