The Sandtrap

[ratagonia]

Just got back from three days on Powell using the sand trap almost exclusively. It is an amazing tool. We did blow out the pull cord on our last pull, but Steve W had a pretty good theory. This particular specimen had webbing as its pull, where Steve's original used rope. The webbing sitting under all that sand created too much friction due to larger surface area being weighted. The roped version never had any trouble. Tom, I want one but I want the old style with the rope pull. Unless you think that theory is nonsense...

That theory is nonsense. There is another tie in point if the nonsensical would want to use a rope for the pull cord. I am dubious of the utility of the Tostada form, rather than the Taco form.

T

[jman]

Edit to add...just got a thought... If you built the trap so the middle was pinched way way down, and the sand stayed in it due to the geometry of the ends, when loaded with a person's weight, then when the rappeller was off, the tarp/trap would sag back naturally, and dump the load... Maybe? That might reduce rope grooves some because you wouldn't have to pull hard on the middle of the bag, just release the load on the ends, and the sand would pour out.

Took me a sec to visualize, but I agree that it would create less rope grooves with your method. It just would require more rope if it was attached to both ends, but with that, it just depends on the canyon and situation.

Would be fun to test this out sometime...

[ratagonia]

Edit to add...just got a thought... If you built the trap so the middle was pinched way way down, and the sand stayed in it due to the geometry of the ends, when loaded with a person's weight, then when the rappeller was off, the tarp/trap would sag back naturally, and dump the load... Maybe? That might reduce rope grooves some because you wouldn't have to pull hard on the middle of the bag, just release the load on the ends, and the sand would pour out.

Hmmmm....

-Brian in SLC

And wouldn't cars be great if they had SIX WHEELS!!!!

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

Took me a sec to visualize, but I agree that it would create less rope grooves with your method. It just would require more rope if it was attached to both ends, but with that, it just depends on the canyon and situation.

Could still use straps that came together, and the same amount of rope, methinks.

Another thought was that a bucket type rig might work. I'm kinda thinkin' one of those mad rock rope buckets (or a collapsable type). If you rapped off the top, full of sand, then, kept tension with a pull cord attached to the bottom, when you took your weight off the top, maybe it'd tip over and empty.

Some three wheel car designs look promising...(and, cars have been around a few years, last I checked).

Be a fun camp project to play around with...

[EvergreenDean]

Tom, knew I could count on you to set us straight. OK, I'll take a current edition Sandtrap when they are ready. BTW, we only used the "taco" form when a lip was present to butt against. "Tostada" was the method for non-lipped platforms. Have you tested both methods on a flat surface with no lip or rise to set against? The explanation I received was that the larger surface area hence more friction was needed when there was no feature on the set up area that the sandtrap could lean against.

[ratagonia]

Tom, knew I could count on you to set us straight. OK, I'll take a current edition Sandtrap when they are ready. BTW, we only used the "taco" form when a lip was present to butt against. "Tostada" was the method for non-lipped platforms. Have you tested both methods on a flat surface with no lip or rise to set against? The explanation I received was that the larger surface area hence more friction was needed when there was no feature on the set up area that the sandtrap could lean against.

Flat surface, no dimple - problematic. The key is using more sand. It is easier to use more sand in Tostada form, but the Taco form has an easier clean. I think the best thing in the "flat" is to build a berm of sand and put the Taco behind it. Best of both worlds.

Tom

[sasteve49]

Hi All, I have used the Maxxi-Pad as I originally called it more times than anyone except Jonathan Zambella of ZAC here in Springdale. I got tired of the constant splitting of potshots on the pulls so thought of a solution to the long setup times and pulls. My first thoughts were of friction, surface area and weight. Thus was born the Maxxi-Pad.(aka sandtrap, Tom's politically correct name). I designed it and my wife Maria, being an FAA Rigger, sewed it up. The original thought was to lay it flat and pile sand on it, then I figured for hanging behind lips as well. I found that a rope tied to the loop worked better than the webbing for the pull, less surface and friction. So now I have produced the final version of the 'Pad and offer it for sale to those who have dissected the concept and realize it's potential. It is manufactured by a professional FAA Rigger who for 15 years produced backpacks, webbing belts, parachute bags and static lines for the Military and Special Forces. He also developed, manufactured and tested parachutes for NASA. This dude knows his stuff. I have known him as a fellow skydive Instructor for over 20 years. I have done many Powell Canyons on it along with Ram who likes it a lot. I will post vids as soon as someone shows me how to do that on Bogley.

[sasteve49]

Coming from you Tom, that is actually insulting. We have much more experience with the MAXXI-Pad than you and as I invented the damn thing, I know what it can do. So your idea is nonsense. I use your book on many occasions here in Zion and it is certainly handy,but stick to your own expertise...........

[moab mark]

Hi All, I have used the Maxxi-Pad as I originally called it more times than anyone except Jonathan Zambella of ZAC here in Springdale. I got tired of the constant splitting of potshots on the pulls so thought of a solution to the long setup times and pulls. My first thoughts were of friction, surface area and weight. Thus was born the Maxxi-Pad.(aka sandtrap, Tom's politically correct name). I designed it and my wife Maria, being an FAA Rigger, sewed it up. The original thought was to lay it flat and pile sand on it, then I figured for hanging behind lips as well. I found that a rope tied to the loop worked better than the webbing for the pull, less surface and friction. So now I have produced the final version of the 'Pad and offer it for sale to those who have dissected the concept and realize it's potential. It is manufactured by a professional FAA Rigger who for 15 years produced backpacks, webbing belts, parachute bags and static lines for the Military and Special Forces. He also developed, manufactured and tested parachutes for NASA. This dude knows his stuff. I have known him as a fellow skydive Instructor for over 20 years. I have done many Powell Canyons on it along with Ram who likes it a lot. I will post vids as soon as someone shows me how to do that on Bogley.

Are there now two different sandtraps available? Or are you selling the same one that Tom is selling?

[sasteve49]

I have decided to sell my own professionally manufactured MaxxiPad. It is of very sturdy construction and will outlast anything else out there. The webbing is double sleeved for max protection and it is a one piece design, no split down the middle. I have videos that I would like to post if someone will show me how.

[Cirrus2000]