Temporary Restrictions on Permits for East Zion Canyons

[Iceaxe]

Temporary Restrictions on Permits for East Zion Canyons

Date: April 7, 2010
Contact: Ray O'Neil, 435-772-7823

Superintendent Jock Whitworth has announced that backcountry permits for several technical canyoneering routes will be restricted starting in mid-May when construction begins on the Zion-Mt Carmel Highway. The affected canyons at this time are Pine Creek, Spry and Keyhole.

Backcountry permits will not be issued for Pine Creek Canyon during the construction period of mid-May to October. The Pine Creek Canyon route ends in the construction zone affecting 3.5 miles of roadway on the switchbacks of the Zion-Mt Carmel Highway. Vehicles will not be allowed to stop or park in the construction zone while work is in progress. Because of the size of the road project, there is not a viable alternative route for canyoneers to go around the work zone. Additionally, there will be less parking available at the beginning of the route as that area will be needed for large construction vehicles to turn around.

Spry Canyon permits will not be issued while construction is occurring between the Pine Creek Bridge and the Canyon Junction. When the roadwork is complete in that area, the park will resume issuing Spry permits. The construction schedule for that section of roadway is not yet known. Permits for Spry Canyon will remain available on a walk-up basis up to one day before the date of the trip from May 1 until the construction starts.

Because of the uncertainty of the construction schedule, advance reservations for Keyhole Canyon are being stopped on June 15. After June 15, permits for Keyhole Canyon will be available on a walk-up basis up to one day before the date of the trip. When the construction schedule is finalized, a date for reservations to start again will be determined and posted on the park website.

When construction starts in mid-May, people accessing hiking routes on the east side of Zion National Park using the Zion-Mt Carmel Highway should plan on delays and temporary closures of 1-3 hours in their travel time. Restrictions on all permits will be lifted when the road project is completed in October.

Updates on the availability of permits for canyoneering routes will be available on the park website at www.nps.gov/zion or by calling the backcountry desk at 435-772-0170. Road information is also available on the website or by calling 435-772-3256 (press 1, then 4).

http://www.nps.gov/zion/parknews/tem...on-canyons.htm

[jman]

Finally the details come:

that blows - No Pinecreek for ALL SUMMER and nearly all of Fall!

Keyhole - no reservations - eh...never get em anyways. Everytime I've done keyhole (15+ times), I have always gotten a walk-in permit, even sometimes at after 2pm.

[Iceaxe]

That's over 100 permit slots per day that will disappear this summer! I'm thinking the permit line will get even more interesting....

[canyoncaver]

I agree, that really sucks!

Too bad they couldn't have made some sort of shuttle arrangements for one of the park's most popular canyons.

Considering what delays of 1-3 hours will do for Englestead, Birch, and Orderville car shuttles, I think I just saw all my canyon plans shift east for the summer.

Also thinking about going to hit Pine Creek before mid-May!

[jman]

That's over 100 permit slots per day that will disappear this summer! I'm thinking the permit line will get even more interesting....

This will make people stay out in the lines even earlier (heck that's what I would do cause of this). The earliest I got there was at 2am and I was first in line for the Subway for a group of 10 many years ago. About 30minutes later, a couple showed up wanting the Subway too. 20minutes after them, another group for the Subway.

Seriously, 1am waiting in line for a permit, and not-allowing sleeping - is insane. How is the park looking out for us, then? How is the park protecting us?

The permit system needs a MAJOR OVERHAUL....now.

Now, its time for Tom's obligatory response of:
Superintendant at Zion
PO Box
Springdale, UT blahblahblahblah blah. I've sent 4 letters (not emails) to him last year telling him about the system. What did I receive in return? No response. In 2008 I sent 3 letters, complainging about the system how it needs to raise limits and change the permit system so we are not up at 1am waiting in line. Again...No response.

Do they even listen? Nope.

[ratagonia]

This will make people stay out in the lines even earlier (heck that's what I would do cause of this). The earliest I got there was at 2am and I was first in line for the Subway for a group of 10 many years ago. About 30minutes later, a couple showed up wanting the Subway too. 20minutes after them, another group for the Subway.

Seriously, 1am waiting in line for a permit, and not-allowing sleeping - is insane. How is the park looking out for us, then? How is the park protecting us?

The permit system needs a MAJOR OVERHAUL....now.

Now, its time for Tom's obligatory response of:
Superintendant at Zion
PO Box
Springdale, UT blahblahblahblah blah. I've sent 4 letters (not emails) to him last year telling him about the system. What did I receive in return? No response. In 2008 I sent 3 letters, complainging about the system how it needs to raise limits and change the permit system so we are not up at 1am waiting in line. Again...No response.

Do they even listen? Nope.

Nah, I have a new plan. Send your letter to:

Representative Jim Matheson
321 North Mall Dr., #E101B
St. George, UT 84790

with a copy to Superintendent ... 84767

You will need to provide quite a bit more context, and be quite a bit more polite.

here's a way to start:

I am writing to you today because of a difficult situation in Zion National Park.

explain that closing an important and unique recreation resource should be done only if REALLY necessary - and it is not! People can walk down the creek all the way to Canyon Junction if need be.

Etc. etc.

Tom

[jman]

Nah, I have a new plan. Send your letter to:

Representative Jim Matheson
321 North Mall Dr., #E101B
St. George, UT 84790

with a copy to Superintendent ... 84767

You will need to provide quite a bit more context, and be quite a bit more polite.

here's a way to start:

I am writing to you today because of a difficult situation in Zion National Park.

explain that closing an important and unique recreation resource should be done only if REALLY necessary - and it is not! People can walk down the creek all the way to Canyon Junction if need be.

Etc. etc.

Tom

yes, I like this "new direction" as Ice coined it in the "Essentials for Mystery Canyon" thread.

What if we created a stickied thread, that has the most influential power of the Zion System, like you mentioned above like Jim Matheson and the Superintendent, and everyone on the board can contribute their thoughts on how to implement a better Canyoneering experience & Permit System in Zion. After there has been a lot of replies, then as a whole, we can come up with a "standardized" letter (of course it can be later tailored to one's own opinion if they like and add to it) and then post that on the first page.

After that, we can have mass mailings the aforementioned people in power and those who join Bogley and visit the canyoneering section can see our thoughts and position, and if they want to join in, they can easily print out our version, add their own thoughts, sign it and mail it. Very easy! Just a thought...

Besides, is not that a reason why forums like these are created? to get a bunch of concerned people rallied behind a just cause and ACTUALLY do something..

[Wasatch]

If Pine Creek is open, you could always thumb a ride in, lol

[Scott Card]

Why couldn't you be dropped off higher up canyon and walk out the bottom? It just seems like Zion Park's assumption and inclination is always to close rather than find a way to keep a resource open. Do the easy thing... Sad really. Maybe the contractors will chuck more big pipes into the canyon and they are protecting us... lol

[trackrunner]

Why couldn't you be dropped off higher up canyon and walk out the bottom? It just seems like Zion Park's assumption and inclination is always to close rather than find a way to keep a resource open. Do the easy thing... Sad really. Maybe the contractors will chuck more big pipes into the canyon and they are protecting us... lol

Scott you're assuming that the permit system is supposed to make sense and be rational. Yes it would be easy to hike an extra mile or two in the clear/pine creek upper and lower portions of the drainage. But that solution is too easy for the permit system and permits, easy, rational don’t go together.

[Scott Card]

Scott you're assuming that the permit system is supposed to make sense and be rational. Yes it would be easy to hike an extra mile or two in the clear/pine creek upper and lower portions of the drainage. But that solution is too easy for the permit system and permits, easy, rational don’t go together.

How well I know this. I think I am one of the loudest ranters against "the system". I was simply pondering (out loud) a system that made sense, back country rangers that were helpful, decision makers who thought "hmmm, how can I help people enjoy the slot canyons and how can I get more people into the canyons to experience the wonder and beauty, after all, it is their park".

But alas, back to reality....

[Iceaxe]

Just a heads up.... Keyhole permits have been added back into the system for May and the first two weeks of June. It looks like the park might feed open dates back into the system when/if they become available. Pine Creek is still closed.

Echo, Imlay, Mystery, Orderville and The Zion Narrows are all listed as closed. I'll assume that high water is the reason for the Imlay, Mystery, Orderville and The Zion Narrows closures.... and canyoneers being idiots and ill prepared (and need rescue) is the reason for the Echo closure.