Essential equipment for Mystery Canyon

[ratagonia]

Now THAT sounds like a good idea.

I wouldn't stand in line at 3:00am for any canyon! I can't believe people actually do that.

Your loss. Of course, you shouldn't need to.

We have a new place for complaints about Zion National Park and the permit system:

Representative Jim Matheson
321 North Mall Dr., #E101B
St. George, UT 84790

with a copy to Superintendent, Zion NP, Springdale UT 84767

You will need to provide quite a bit more context, and be quite a bit more polite.

here's a way to start:

I am writing to you today because of a difficult situation in Zion National Park.

Etc. etc.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Your loss. Of course, you shouldn't need to.

We have a new place for complaints about Zion National Park and the permit system:

Representative Jim Matheson
321 North Mall Dr., #E101B
St. George, UT 84790

with a copy to Superintendent, Zion NP, Springdale UT 84767

You will need to provide quite a bit more context, and be quite a bit more polite.

here's a way to start:

I am writing to you today because of a difficult situation in Zion National Park.

Etc. etc.

Tom

I like the new direction.... because it's obvious the old direction wasn't working.

[bruce from bryce]

Sorry Tom but the last three (3) times I was in line I had my chair, stove to heat water, coffee cup, bagel with cream cheese & jelly, Tom's Zion Canyoneering and my headlamp. No one said anything to me or the others that had similiar items. Could it be that my being a former employee influenced their decision not to address the subject to anyone? If so I guess that is favoritism which I will always accept since it helps the group in attendance on that day at least.

[ratagonia]

Sorry Tom but the last three (3) times I was in line I had my chair, stove to heat water, coffee cup, bagel with cream cheese & jelly, Tom's Zion Canyoneering and my headlamp. No one said anything to me or the others that had similiar items. Could it be that my being a former employee influenced their decision not to address the subject to anyone? If so I guess that is favoritism which I will always accept since it helps the group in attendance on that day at least.

They came down hard on people sometime last summer. Maybe they decided it was "inappropriate", and have relaxed somewhat. Let me make a different suggestion: take whatever comforts work for you, and if someone comes by and tells you you can't have them, then promptly take them back to the car. As I remember, said "down hards" snuck the stuff back and were confronted again 15 minutes later. The making up names probably did not help either...

Tom

[sarahlizzy]

Now THAT sounds like a good idea.

I wouldn't stand in line at 3:00am for any canyon! I can't believe people actually do that.

I'm coming from the other side of the Atlantic. I get 1 1/2 weeks per year in Zion, and I really want to do Mystery. I'll wait out all night if I need to.

[Ryebrye]

It's been a while, but in my humble opinion... Mystery isn't really worth the hassle. Especially since I've heard that sand filled in that one pool, so it's basically got a few cool areas and one really cool last rappel where you get to be the star in a lot of people's vacation photos and then answer questions about "How did you get the ropes up there?"

For Mystery - since it's OBVIOUS that you aren't going to get the walk-on permits... they should just auction off the allotment they had for "walk-ons" N days before the date you want that permit. Given a choice between a lottery and an auction, I'd pick the auction because at least when I don't win I don't have to pay anything... and they could take all that auction money and put it into making a new HD version of the "how to poo - zion style" video to make people watch in a non-stop loop while they wait for other canyons permits.

My 2 cents - If I had a choice between Imlay sneak & peak and Mystery - I'd pick the sneak and peak almost every time. (Both take the same amount of effort - but at least with imlay the effort is exerted in the canyon unlike Mystery where all that energy is exerted just so you can get a permit)

[ratagonia]

It's been a while, but in my humble opinion... Mystery isn't really worth the hassle. Especially since I've heard that sand filled in that one pool, so it's basically got a few cool areas and one really cool last rappel where you get to be the star in a lot of people's vacation photos and then answer questions about "How did you get the ropes up there?"

For Mystery - since it's OBVIOUS that you aren't going to get the walk-on permits... they should just auction off the allotment they had for "walk-ons" N days before the date you want that permit. Given a choice between a lottery and an auction, I'd pick the auction because at least when I don't win I don't have to pay anything... and they could take all that auction money and put it into making a new HD version of the "how to poo - zion style" video to make people watch in a non-stop loop while they wait for other canyons permits.

My 2 cents - If I had a choice between Imlay sneak & peak and Mystery - I'd pick the sneak and peak almost every time. (Both take the same amount of effort - but at least with imlay the effort is exerted in the canyon unlike Mystery where all that energy is exerted just so you can get a permit)

Talk about a PARTY POOPER!!! Sarah - stick your fingers in your ears, yell "wa wa wa wa wa". He will go away.

Mystery is a GREAT canyon. Imlay is a GREAT canyon. Skill level required somewhat higher. Being less cynical than Ryebrye, I guess I like both, a lot!

"Sneak and Peak" - where's the peak? Ryebrye - are you one of the many Utahns proud of not being able to spell? I know there's a lot of em out there, kinda a retro-hick anti-intellectual cool. The spelling on that would be "Sneak and Peek" - as in peer in - get it? Yeah yeah I know, Tom shouldn't be so upset about waht peopel call dem canyons down in Zions - he's just one a dem Eastern Envirenmental Extreeeemist Elitest types...

(that's me!)

[Cirrus2000]

"Oh my heck, it has everything." Still one of my favourite quotes in The Book. Don and I kept saying that all through the canyon.

I loved Mystery. I did manage to get a reservation for May 23 - too bad it will still probably be closed for high flow in the Narrows.

Of course, I may be wrong, and I can drag the kids - and three others - through it!

[sarahlizzy]

Talk about a PARTY POOPER!!! Sarah - stick your fingers in your ears, yell "wa wa wa wa wa". He will go away.

Wa wa wa wa wa!

Last year, despite some, um, problems with the weather and a little incipient flash flood in the Virgin, Mystery was the highlight of my trip, and one of the most awesome things I've ever done! Absolutely definitely have to do it again this year if I can. Out of the whole trip, that ledge above Mystery Spring was probably the only time I was truly terrified - it scared me more than that exit rap in Pine Creek, which I'd previously built up into a really big deal in my mind.

There are lots of us, we can take it in turns waiting in line, we *will* get those permits, especially since it's looking quite likely that the east side canyons are off-limits this June. Only thing I have a permit for at the moment is Behunin.



(A longer exposure would have been blurred on account of the quaking in terror! I have been converted to the wisdom of rope bags since that was taken, yes)

[sarahlizzy]

My 2 cents - If I had a choice between Imlay sneak & peak and Mystery - I'd pick the sneak and peak almost every time. (Both take the same amount of effort - but at least with imlay the effort is exerted in the canyon unlike Mystery where all that energy is exerted just so you can get a permit)

Some of us are not even close to the level of experience and technical competence to do Imlay without either needing rescue or getting ourselves killed. Having never done a class 4 canyon, Mystery is probably the most amazing Zion experience I've had, and I can well understand why competition for the permits is so fierce. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I was of an ability where Imlay was something I could contemplate, but I'm not, and if I get to do Mystery again this year, it will make my 5000 mile trip to Zion worthwhile by itself.

I don't mind losing a night's sleep for that - I'll only get to do this a few times in my life.

[jman]

Sarah, in your picture at Mystery Springs, did you use a runner, or daisy chain, or heck even a bunny strap to secure yourself to that webbing-line that takes you to the bolts?

If you clipped-in, it might ease your nerves a bit next time, rather than hand-over-hand....scary!

[Scott P]

I guess I'm a party pooper too, but as Zion canyons go I too think Mystery is fairly average, though the last part is super cool. I've always wondered why it's Tom's favorite, though different strokes for different folks I guess and I still think it's well worth doing (and still better than most canyons outside Zion).

As mentioned, Imaly is better, but yes, it does require skills. Personally, I think Pine Creek is better than Mystery. I really like the cathedral section especially. Subway is prettier than Mystery IMHO with all it's super awesome pools, waterfalls and the Subway itself. I liked Icebox better too, but the exit is long. I even like Right Fork better, but that's really apples and oranges.

Mystery is still a good canyon, but as Zion goes (to me) there are some canyons in Zion that are as appealing or more so.

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Anyway, there is a secret for getting walk in permits in Zion. If you are coming from the north, rather than heading straight to Zion Canyon, head to the Kolob visitor center instead and be there at opening time (especially for a next day permit). I've never seen people line up there. Chances are (and even when we were there on weekends and including on a popular holiday weekend) that while the people are waiting in a long line in Zion Canyon you will be getting your walk permit at the Kolob Visitor Center. Unless things have changed, they issue permits for every canyon in Zion, even the ones accessed from Zion Canyon.

[sarahlizzy]

Sarah, in your picture at Mystery Springs, did you use a runner, or daisy chain, or heck even a bunny strap to secure yourself to that webbing-line that takes you to the bolts?

If you clipped-in, it might ease your nerves a bit next time, rather than hand-over-hand....scary!

I'm attached to the bolts with a canyon quickdraw, and yes, was clipped very firmly to the webbing line on the way over!

ETA: There is not enough money in the world to persuade me to walk out there without a safety tether.

[sarahlizzy]

As mentioned, Imaly is better, but yes, it does require skills. Personally, I think Pine Creek is better than Mystery. I really like the cathedral section especially. Subway is prettier than Mystery IMHO with all it's super awesome pools, waterfalls and the Subway itself. I liked Icebox better too, but the exit is long. I even like Right Fork better, but that's really apples and oranges.

Pine Creek was fun, and I'd like to do it again. The Subway is really pretty, but they're both pay on exit canyons, and I got a bit of a sense of "are we nearly there yet?" when done with the technical sections of both (especially Pine Creek - the boulders were fun, for the first 20 minutes). I found the exit from Mystery to be something special though, and the rest of the canyon was a lot of fun too! It has more raps than Pine Creek and the Subway put together and either one of Mystery Spring (for the nerve-tingling exposure on that ledge) and Mystery Falls (crowd pleaser!) make the whole thing worthwhile for me.

[CarpeyBiggs]

My 2 cents - If I had a choice between Imlay sneak & peak and Mystery - I'd pick the sneak and peak almost every time. (Both take the same amount of effort - but at least with imlay the effort is exerted in the canyon unlike Mystery where all that energy is exerted just so you can get a permit)

Ryan, do you remember our trip through Imlay? The one that resulted in me touching down in the narrows at 9:05 pm and proceeding to run through the narrows in a drysuit, catching the last shuttle bus at the Temple at 10:05 pm as it was pulling away, waving my headlamp to catch them? Yeah, THAT was fun...

Imlay and Mystery are NOWHERE near the same level of experience required.

And mystery is a great canyon, everyone should do it.

[ratagonia]

I guess I'm a party pooper too, ...

Anyway, there is a secret for getting walk in permits in Zion. If you are coming from the north, rather than heading straight to Zion Canyon, head to the Kolob visitor center instead and be there at opening time (especially for a next day permit). I've never seen people line up there. Chances are (and even when we were there on weekends and including on a popular holiday weekend) that while the people are waiting in a long line in Zion Canyon you will be getting your walk permit at the Kolob Visitor Center. Unless things have changed, they issue permits for every canyon in Zion, even the ones accessed from Zion Canyon.

Yes you are!

Not sure the Kolob Canyons Visitor Center opens at 7 am like the window at the main one. Actually, pretty sure it does not. Also, the employees there are often a little slow on writing permits, so I'm not sure it would be so much faster, but it was good for the Friday Night permits when coming down from Salt Lake.

Tom

[Pelon1]

Once again Tom you are correct the Kolob Canyons Visitor Center opens at 0800.

[Scott P]

Yes you are!

That's OK with me. Although I thought it was worthwhile, I just didn't get the "best canyon in Zion" thing. I know I'm not alone and have heard many others (several of which are members of this group) have the same opinion. Your good buddy MK, rates at as #27 in his book. Of course, the only way to find out is to Mystery Canyon, so I guess everyone should do it. If not rating Mystery #1 in Zion makes me a party pooper, so be it.

Anyway, (unfortunately) I haven't done Heaps, Kolob (Upper) or Boundary (and a few of the "secret ones"), but these would be the technical Zion Canyons I have done approximately in order that I like them (on the other hand comparing canyons in Zion is like comparing apples and oranges).

1. Imlay

2. Subway

3. Pine Creek

4. Icebox

5. Right Fork

6. Mystery

7. Secret Falls

8. Echo

9. Keyhole

10. Nameless

11. Beartrap (from Chasm Lake)

Of course if just about any canyon in Zion was located anywhere else in the world, it would be considered a world wonder. .....and of course opinions may vary, especially from the party poopers. For example, I take it that you didn't seem to like Right Fork too much and that the canyon is boring below Double Falls. For me exploring the hidden treasures in the side canyons below Double Falls is one of the highlights of Right Fork. If I like that part and you don't does that make you a party pooper? I guess we're all party poopers in our own way, at least if opinions vary on our favorite canyons.

I've heard some people say that Kolob is the best canyon in Zion. I heard another (I think it was Shane) say it was over-rated.

I like Right Fork. I've heard others say they didn't like it at all.

Both Shane and JW said Behunin was really lame. I believe you and Brian said it was awesome.

Both Harvey and SA told me that they didn't think Mystery was that great. It is your favorite.

One person just posted that Eye of the Needle was their favorite. I've heard that that one (I think by SB) is over-rated as well.

We're all party poopers in our own way.

I've never heard anyone say (yet at least) that Imlay or Heaps were lame or over-rated in any way. Perhaps by the process of elimination, these two could be considered the best canyons in Zion (now where's the emoticon). Of course for the unprepared or beginner, they would be the worse........

Not sure the Kolob Canyons Visitor Center opens at 7 am like the window at the main one. Actually, pretty sure it does not. Also, the employees there are often a little slow on writing permits, so I'm not sure it would be so much faster, but it was good for the Friday Night permits when coming down from Salt Lake.

I guess you are right, but even so when we've showed up at the Kolob Visitor Center, we didn't have any problems getting a next day permit, even for places like the Subway on 4th of July weekend. We didn't have problems getting one for Mystery, Echo or Keyhole either on a weekend, though I guess we could have just got lucky.

It has more raps than Pine Creek and the Subway put together

We did five raps in Mystery (3 in the Rock Narrows, Mystery Springs and the falls) which is about the same about we did in Pine Creek, though it seems like everyone comes up with a different amount of raps for either canyon.

[ratagonia]

That's OK with me. Although I thought it was worthwhile, I just didn't get the "best canyon in Zion" thing. I know I'm not alone and have heard many others (several of which are members of this group) have the same opinion. Your good buddy MK, rates at as #27 in his book.

I never said "best"; I have said "favorite" - quite a difference.

Among other attributes of my (cough cough) 'buddy' MK is a distinct lack of taste. IMNEHO.

Tom

[Scott P]

I never said "best"; I have said "favorite" - quite a difference.

An interesting difference though. When reading your book, I took "favorite" to mean "best", which is why in a way I was expecting Mystery to be the "best" canyon in Zion and IMHO I didn't feel that way after the fact.

Anyway, if "favorite" doesn't mean "best", I'd be curious as to what say, your favorite five canyons in Zion were versus the "best" five in Zion (and I already know that "best" can mean a lot of different things). I'd really be interested to see the list.

IMNEHO

I guess it's rather embassing, but I don't know what this one means. I know what IMNSHO means, but what's the "E" for? Emperor?