My Rappelling Accident in Moab

[Cirrus2000]

jman, I really miss your gum chewing avatar chick. This one is much less... hypnotic.

[moab mark]

jman, I really miss your gum chewing avatar chick. This one is much less... hypnotic.

X 2

[Pelon1]

jman, I really miss your gum chewing avatar chick. This one is much less... hypnotic.

It was hard not to stare at it for just a moment (everytime!)

x3

[Cirrus2000]

x3

( )

[jman]

Looks like everyone is unanimous - haha, I'll bring her back tomorrow morning.

[canyoncaver]

Well, I guess I knew what I was getting into criticizing the ATC around this crowd!

However, I still maintain that there are more appropriate devices out there. Devices that provide more friction on their own, without adding carabiners, and without using two devices in tandem. By adding carabiners and doubling up ATC's, you are actually agreeing with me that the ATC doesn't provide enough friction on its own for long free-hanging drops.

I understand that many of you do just fine with ATCs on single rope. Great. I'm happy for you. But please understand that it is not the best option for some people. For example, I weigh nearly 200 lbs. Once you add a pack to that, I find that even doubled 9mm climbing rope through an ATC is too fast for my liking. I end up having to use a lot of hand strength, and have experienced hand cramps like jman describes, even on drops of <50ft.

When you have a device that you trust to provide enough friction, I'm not sure you would still insist that bottom belays are mandatory for free-hanging rappels. Free-hanging rappels are done safely all the time without them. In many situations, (thinking mostly of caving here) there is no safe place for a bottom belayer to be. Hanging out below a drop while someone rappels is not always a genius idea. I'm not suggesting that you never use a bottom belay, just that they are not always possible and shouldn't always be required.

[Bo_Beck]

Well, I guess I knew what I was getting into criticizing the ATC around this crowd!

However, I still maintain that there are more appropriate devices out there. Devices that provide more friction on their own, without adding carabiners, and without using two devices in tandem. By adding carabiners and doubling up ATC's, you are actually agreeing with me that the ATC doesn't provide enough friction on its own for long free-hanging drops.

I understand that many of you do just fine with ATCs on single rope. Great. I'm happy for you. But please understand that it is not the best option for some people. For example, I weigh nearly 200 lbs. Once you add a pack to that, I find that even doubled 9mm climbing rope through an ATC is too fast for my liking. I end up having to use a lot of hand strength, and have experienced hand cramps like jman describes, even on drops of <50ft.

When you have a device that you trust to provide enough friction, I'm not sure you would still insist that bottom belays are mandatory for free-hanging rappels. Free-hanging rappels are done safely all the time without them. In many situations, (thinking mostly of caving here) there is no safe place for a bottom belayer to be. Hanging out below a drop while someone rappels is not always a genius idea. I'm not suggesting that you never use a bottom belay, just that they are not always possible and shouldn't always be required.

Might try one of these devices! I've used it, and really like it. I've used the stainless version, but am about ready to order the titanium version.

http://www.conterra-inc.com/index.ph...&product_id=37

[Brian in SLC]

However, I still maintain that there are more appropriate devices out there. Devices that provide more friction on their own, without adding carabiners, and without using two devices in tandem. By adding carabiners and doubling up ATC's, you are actually agreeing with me that the ATC doesn't provide enough friction on its own for long free-hanging drops.

Concur on the bottom belay. I think a "proactive" top belay, versus a "reactive" bottom belay is much better. IMHO.

Onto the devices...

Ok, like what? A rappel rack?

A rack is sweet, but, only good for one purpose. And, for most folks' money, two ATC's is much cheaper and more functional than one rack. Lighter usually too. Easier to get replacement parts for (just buy another one). Rather than hoping where ever you're buying your replacement bars from are still out there (and they haven't discontinued that size device).

For fun, I took a CMI mini firefly and dremelled the bar so I can actually take it on and off a rope. Light, compact. Works pretty sweet, but, the bars are aluminum and wear very quickly, especially in any kind of sandstone (ala So. Utar) environment. Geez, can I get new bars?

So, tell us what devices, including racks, which would be your choice for single strand, say, 8.3mm rope on a free hanging rappel. Edjumacate us!

Bo, that Scarab is cool looking! Wicked spendy, though. Ti? Yikes. 250 retail? Eeeouch! That's 10 or more ATC-XP's...

Anyhoo, fun stuff. Ok, as fun as rappelling can be I suppose (har har).

-Brian in SLC

[Felicia]

Looks like everyone is unanimous - haha, I'll bring her back tomorrow morning.

Yeah - she is back! I really disliked the other one - too gross for me.

Very glad to hear that you are ok.

Thanks for sharing - I know that it may be difficult at times, but I have learned a couple of things because of this tread. I've also had some good personal debates with others about rigging, devices and friction. Thanks.

I hope that you only broke bones and do not have ligament damage - good luck with the surgery. Remember: toes above nose.

[theking648]

jman Im glad your ok... and thank you for the post. not for learning lessons but for sparking a fire.

i wish i could quote all the post but..



yep there we're some good ones.

[Iceaxe]

For jman.....

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever." - Evil Knievel

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, and America has the best Doctor to Daredevil ratio in the world." - Captain Lance Murdoch

[ratagonia]

Well, I guess I knew what I was getting into criticizing the ATC around this crowd!

However, I still maintain that there are more appropriate devices out there. Devices that provide more friction on their own, without adding carabiners, and without using two devices in tandem. By adding carabiners and doubling up ATC's, you are actually agreeing with me that the ATC doesn't provide enough friction on its own for long free-hanging drops.

I understand that many of you do just fine with ATCs on single rope. Great. I'm happy for you. But please understand that it is not the best option for some people. For example, I weigh nearly 200 lbs. Once you add a pack to that, I find that even doubled 9mm climbing rope through an ATC is too fast for my liking. I end up having to use a lot of hand strength, and have experienced hand cramps like jman describes, even on drops of <50ft.

When you have a device that you trust to provide enough friction, I'm not sure you would still insist that bottom belays are mandatory for free-hanging rappels. Free-hanging rappels are done safely all the time without them. In many situations, (thinking mostly of caving here) there is no safe place for a bottom belayer to be. Hanging out below a drop while someone rappels is not always a genius idea. I'm not suggesting that you never use a bottom belay, just that they are not always possible and shouldn't always be required.

You mean, you want something that is automatic-level easy to use, fits lots of different ropes on lots of different sizes, is inexpensive, doesn't weigh much, looks snazzy, easy and fast to rig and de-rig, chicks dig it, dhudes dig it, ... etc.? Not gonna happen.

ATC-XP is great. But, you have to buy these accessory parts, called 'carabiners', that work with it to help adapt to different ropes/weights/conditions. Funny, I already seemed to own a whole bunch of the accessory parts and, funny, I already carry them with me in the canyon. YES, there is stuff to know and figure out, and if you don't you might end up hitting the ground and breaking your ankle and STILL feeling lucky. What's your point?

No device is 'ultra-versatile' - each has their good and bad points. Personally, I use a Pirana most of the time, but an ATC a fair amount. You can get a wide range of friction on an ATC without too much fiddling. Bueno.

Tom

ps for those of you keeping score, I agreed with Brian, AGAIN. Uh oh, soon goats will be marrying hedgehogs - watchout!!!

[bruce from bryce]

A few years back I had the pleasure of attending a pothole escape training day with Tom Jones, which ended in a 400 foot descent of the Hidden Canyon wall. I remember attempting to determine what was best for each of the participants for the descent, of which about 260' was going to be free.

I believe in the first section we tried to use two devices but found that we could not move much at all since we were using a 600 foot rope (I don't remember what the rope size was). Too much friction so this ideas was discarded!

The second section we worked on stopping our descent and adding extra friction and boy was that work. Every try to lift a 600 foot rope that has gotten wet? On rappel?

Finally in the third section each of us chose the method we were to use and tried to perfect its usage on that rappel.

Then it was on to the rappel itself, which was awesome. Fortunately everyone made it down safely ending a mostly successful day.

Now what am I going to use for the final rap in Heaps this summer? Not sure yet but will be trying out a couple of setups next month during a descent of Ice Cube in LV.

Get well man, wish you were able to join us for 'The Cube'.

[canyoncaver]

You mean, you want something that is automatic-level easy to use, fits lots of different ropes on lots of different sizes, is inexpensive, doesn't weigh much, looks snazzy, easy and fast to rig and de-rig, chicks dig it, dhudes dig it, ... etc.?

Nah, you're reading a lot of things in here. The only criteria you listed that really seem important to me would be the fits different size ropes, easy to rig, and chicks dig it. The others, not so much.

ATC-XP is great. But, you have to buy these accessory parts, called 'carabiners', that work with it to help adapt to different ropes/weights/conditions. Funny, I already seemed to own a whole bunch of the accessory parts and, funny, I already carry them with me in the canyon. YES, there is stuff to know and figure out, and if you don't you might end up hitting the ground and breaking your ankle and STILL feeling lucky. What's your point?

My point is that this is not the first time we've heard about someone cratering while using an ATC single-roped. Using facts-based analysis, this points me toward the conclusion that perhaps the ATC is not the best device for this particular application.

However, it has become quite clear to me that in large part the American canyoneering community disagrees with this conclusion. They disagree to the extent that they would rather add several carabiners for friction than switch to a different device. Also, while these ATC extra-friction techniques are widely known, some continue to not use them. Some of these people continue to crater. To this I say: To each his own and happy rappelling!

If you are happy with your ATC, then great. If you are not, and find that you have to use hand-cramping force to slow yourself (as I do), then you may want to check out a different device. A mini-rappel rack, bobbin, or any of the specialty eights including Piranas and Totems might work better for you. These all adapt to different ropes/weights/conditions without a z-rig of carabiners. If you rig single-rope, especially on long free drops, you might be happier with something besides a tube device.

When I use an ATC, I have to work hard with my brake hand. With the other listed devices, I do not. When working hard with your brake hand for hundreds of feet, your hand might tire or cramp, and this could cause you to fall.

That is all.

[Jaxx]

That sucks you might miss the summer. Atleast you will be ready for fall season (5 months max recovery). I would also thank you for sharing. It sucks to be picked on but I have really learned some good pointers here.

I would like to contribute to the ATC argument. I am too girlish to admit my weight online but with a pack on I weigh well over 250 lbs. I have never had a problem with the atc guide. If the rap is overhanging then I will put two biners on for the rope to go around. I have attached a picture so I can try out the new bogley attach feature!

[RedRoxx]

This is a great place to practice---from Wickipedia--

The Cave of Swallows, also called Cave of the Swallows (Spanish: [I][B]S

[jman]

Thanks everyone!

Just a update for today:

I had surgery on Thursday at the Surgical Center in Ogden. I arrived at 7am and I was first in line. I filled out all the paper work, was told about anesthesia and got a bit nervous. They said they would intubate me as well. They stuck a IV in me for fluids as well as a antibiotic. Then the Nurse pulled up my left ankle and put it on a soft cloth and used a razor to shave up to my shins. Then I just sat around for an hour.

Finally, they wheel me into the back room of the surgery rooms around 9am. The room was very spacious, had lots of tvs, and the radio semi-loud blasting Ozzy Osbourn Crazy Train! I was psyched and ready to get this surgery over. My pain level at this time was about 1/10 - very, very, very manageable.

They next injected Propofol (what Michael Jackson OD'ed and died on) and I was out with in 5 minutes. The actual surgery consisted of a few procedures. First, they would have two holes on the front of the ankle for the scope. Then they would make an incision on the lateral side of the ankle. Next, because of the location of the fractures, they would need to cut the Fibula and push it to the side. From there they would rewire the broken bone fragments into my talus and sew me back up and put on a brace and screw it into my fibula to stabilize it.

The next thing I remember is waking up and screaming in PAIN!! The actually surgery took about 2 1/2 hours and I looked down at my leg and it had a splint and I was wearing a pain pump (a local anesthetic that numbs all of the nerve endings but doesn't work too well - it just removes the edge of the pain). My ankle was in so much pain! I have never ever ever felt that kind of pain before. The surgery and recovery hurt 10x more than the actually fall did!

Because of the anesthesia I was a little bit nauseous and light-headed. After about 10mins of groaning to myself because of the pain, finally a nurse came back and gave me a cocktail of two percosets, a morphine drip, and 1 or 2 ibuprofens for the swelling. I was maxed out on pain meds and my perception of pain was a 9/10!!!!

It hurt sooo bad. The pain just increased more and more and soon it became so unbearable that the only thing my body could do to cope with the pain was hyperventilate. I was trying to calm myself but the pain was so unbearable, after hyperventilating for over a minute, I then just wept like a hurt baby for over 10minutes. I was balling and crying so loud. I could NOT DEAL with the pain...it hurt so bad. (And I'm person who never cries. I once fell off a 2-story house when I was 14yrs-old and fell head first and didn't cry when I landed as I landed on my back and arms...but that's a story within itself).

My wailing and crying was so bad, that a nurse came in and told me "get a hold of myself" and that I was "scaring the other patients" and "just deal with the pain". I was in shock! I couldn't believe she said those things. It's like telling a mother who is birthing to be quiet cause she's to loud. Or telling a soldier who just got shot 4 times in the body to "deal with the pain" and "be quiet". Man...the audacity of some people...I swear.

I was in too much pain to say anything to her, so I just let it go. After I stopped crying, I said a prayer asking for a little pain relief. And within a instant my leg pain was much more tolerable. After another 1hr of observation and doing final tests, all the while I'm massaging my leg and asking the Doctor more questions about the surgery - they finally released me!

My dad brought his truck and loaded me into it and it was very uncomfortable since I couldn't lay down. After 30 minutes of driving we hit my Mom's house and everyone helped me into the house and laid me down on my bed.

And that's where I have been ever since...

Thankfully with the percoset and pain pump, my pain perception has been about a 5/10 rising up to a 7/10 in the mornings. And I've been super spoiled with friends coming over for long periods of time, and family being around playing board games and videogames and watching movies, etc. Everyone has been so accomodating and super helpful. I'm very humble to have all of their help, and to realize that I'm fortunate to be in "this" pain as it could of been so much worse...I can't even imagine.

I have an appt this week for a followup and to remove the pain pump (they leave it for a short amount of time, due to worry about infection). I asked my Doctor how long the recovery process would last - and he said that I should be walking on within 2-3 months! And 3 weeks later after the accident - my right foot and ankle are nearly 100% healed. I can walk on it without pain, there is no more bruising and swelling, and I can put my full weight on it without complaint. Go body!

And Thanks to everyone here for their kind wishes and sympathy! and hopefully by me sharing this experience - you can learn from my mistakes.

[Felicia]

Great to hear that the surgery went well. How is the swelling?

Take the time to recover properly. You have the rest of your life to walk, if you do not take the time now, you will walk incorrectly for the rest of your life.

Remember - toes above nose.

[ststephen]

Best wishes to you jman for a full recuperation. F-ing doctors and nurses and their "just deal with it" attitudes really get me riled. I understand wanting to keep people in chronic pain from being dependent. But you have a very temporary condition that could absolutely be made to be 100% comfortable. WTF! Maybe I'm missing some important reason to deny you something stronger like Morphine but I don't get it.

[bruce from bryce]

Iceman's post #8, Patrick Depallier death at Hockenheim brought back memories for me. I used drive from my workplace at heidelberg airfield over to the exact same location for my lunch. many times there would be Formula 1 teams practicing there in cars with no paint on them so it was difficult to know who was driving. I also saw the horrific crash at Monza in 1978, when Richie Peterson survived the crash at the first turn at the start of the race only to die of a blood clot in his leg while recovering in the hospital. Ayrton Senna dying in a crash that seemed so benign and the great Gilles Villeneuve in a crash that no one saw. Many great moments in the sport but at the speeds they attained it was only inevitable that someone would die almost yearly.