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Thread: My Rappelling Accident in Moab

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahlizzy
    Maybe there's an element of complacency in what you've observed? You get worse road accidents at 90mph, but newbie drivers don't tend to drive that fast.
    Nah, you've failed to take into account the "young, bulletproof male" scenario...
    Ah, that's getting into the whole "knowing just enough to be dangerous" scenario. I find I end up second guessing myself massively over that - I mean, it's probably the stage I'm at.

    ETA: Although I very much don't regard myself as bulletproof.

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  3. #42
    Heck.... if half a dozen Toyota's suddenly accelerated at full throttle it would probably be in all the fish wrappers, we would be having government inquiries and the general population might even be suggesting that heads should roll..... err..... Something like that.....


  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe
    What I'm also seeing is the old.... "it can't happen to me" syndrome in regards to the issue....

    "It only happens to noobs..."
    "It won't happen to me... I have this really cool new rappel device...."
    "It can't happen to me, I wear a glove..."


    Scary when folks start thinking like that.....

    Amen brother. This is why I like reading this site and the yahoo group. Threads like this keep me thinking and reevaluating my own technique and safety and that of others.
    Life is Good

  5. #44
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe

    I just feel there is a flaw in the basic biner block/skinny ropes/single strand system.... why do I feel this way you ask? Because to many "experienced" people are getting hurt.... these accidents/death's should not be happening....

    I think I know where you are headed with this, Ice. I tend to agree kinda sorta. After all, I am the one responsible for having my group carry 1100 feet of rope through Heaps so as to double strand the last and second to last raps. However, I have used, almost exclusively, the biner block/single strand method for the past couple of years. I use this mostly due to the ability to quickly measure the length of the rappel and not have to coil or bag a bunch of extra rope. Further, it is just easier for me particularly in wet canyons. I remember doing the double rope method in Kolob my first time and I swear I was getting tangled in all the floating rope while unhooking and then afterwords fighting to bag/coil the mess of rope just to throw it for the next rap - 20 feet away. The biner block has made me and my groups much more efficient and quick in the canyon. Soooo very nice to slide off the end of a rope when you touch or splash down rather than have to do a water disconnect. I guess what I am saying is that for me, in most situations, the biner block is K.I.S.S.

    That being said, I regularly ask for a belay. If I am first down on a tall rappel, I have back up friction rigged before ever leaning backwards and starting over the edge. I'd much rather feed rope through the rappel device than fry my hand or worse, crater as was mentioned. Just me, I have this fear of hard landings. The knees are getting old. (Sorry Tom, had to use moses guy here. Don't worry, he is still mostly yours )
    Surprisingly, I agree with ICE and BDC - clueless beginners and over-confident noobs should definitely rappel on a double-strand of rope in order not to besmirch the "other technique"...

    Tom

    (not including YOU in that Jman, sounds like you had a weird thing happen to you, and got a little banged up. As I said before, could happen to anyone, and it does).

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe
    Heck.... if half a dozen Toyota's suddenly accelerated at full throttle it would probably be in all the fish wrappers, we would be having government inquiries and the general population might even be suggesting that heads should roll..... err..... Something like that.....
    Well, I rap single strand *and* I drive a Prius...

    What must you think of me?

  7. #46
    One more thought to throw in the pile.... In a brief moment of introspection I admit the following: I am much more inclined to be complacent on a stunt rappel than in a canyon. I am more inclined to be complacent at the end of the day than at the beginning. I am much more inclined to be complacent on the last rappel than the first (with the exception of Heaps). I am more inclined to be complacent when I know my mug is being photographed (particularly if I am in a wet suit -- gotta suck in the gut and think finesse and no flailing arms and legs) I am more inclined to be complacent on shorter to mid size raps (less than 100 feet) than longer raps. There is my confession for the day.
    Life is Good

  8. #47
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    While Shane will opine that SRT is a deathtrap, I will counter and say--
    No one has been killed or hurt from a SRT technique that was "PROPERLY" set up. (I'm just talking about the system here)
    There have on the other hand, been numerous accident's, maybe even the highest number of accidents, due to loss of control or lack of friction. Those who read about SRT or see it on the internet, at times have no clue why to use SRT in the first place, and along with SRT, comes the requirement of knowing your rappel devices and "easily" being able to add friction mid rappel.
    I personally see no reason in Jman's incident to use a single 8mm line. His situation screams--double strand. I rap double strand on 8mm line a lot, when the situation dictates it. I also use single strand 8mm and rig according to the rappel at hand.
    I hardly think this incident, as I understand it, is a result of a biner block. It appears to me to be an accident as a result of too little friction on a rappel device, causing the rappeler to squeeze the brake hand so hard as to overheat and burn his hand. I would think the extra force of trying to squeeze the rope hard enough to slow down, also caused the cramping.

    So I ask--Jman, why did you set up a block? You were the only person to rappel.

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahlizzy
    Well, I rap single strand *and* I drive a Prius...

    What must you think of me?
    In a country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

    Or, in your case...

    My allegory for the day.

    -Brian in SLC

  10. #49
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    I would also like to add--
    Thank God your buddy chickened out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If this would have happened on a simul-rap..........................

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7
    I would also like to add--
    Thank God your buddy chickened out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If this would have happened on a simul-rap..........................
    Life is Good

  12. #51
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahlizzy
    Well, I rap single strand *and* I drive a Prius...

    What must you think of me?
    In a country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

    Or, in your case...

    My allegory for the day.

    -Brian in SLC
    Nothing personal, Sarah Lizzy. Brian and Shane beat this corpse-of-a-horse every time the opportunity presents. Mostly for sport, I think...


  13. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia
    Nothing personal, Sarah Lizzy. Brian and Shane beat this corpse-of-a-horse every time the opportunity presents. Mostly for sport, I think...
    Heh. No worries - I've got a pretty thick skin and you've all spent longer doing this stuff than I ever will. I'm mostly happy if I'm competent (and lucky) enough to avoid becoming a statistic on either side of this debate!

  14. #53
    I'm curious what your non-brake hand was doing at the time you lost control? I don't suppose it was spasming, too?

    It seems every time I hear of someone complaining about lack of friction their non-brake hand is uselessly holding the rope above their rappel device getting burned. When I want additional friction I'll grab both the carabiner and rope (below the rappel device) with my non-brake hand and press the rope into the carabiner. This creates quite a bit of friction, usually more than my original brake hand creates.

  15. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahlizzy
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe
    Heck.... if half a dozen Toyota's suddenly accelerated at full throttle it would probably be in all the fish wrappers, we would be having government inquiries and the general population might even be suggesting that heads should roll..... err..... Something like that.....
    Well, I rap single strand *and* I drive a Prius...

    What must you think of me?
    Sinlge strand is the least of your problems.

  16. #55
    Any of you that have been on top of this arch know why his buddy turned back. It gives me the heee beee jeeeebbeees. Been there once rappeled off once and not goin back.

  17. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahlizzy
    Maybe there's an element of complacency in what you've observed? You get worse road accidents at 90mph, but newbie drivers don't tend to drive that fast.
    Nah, you've failed to take into account the "young, bulletproof male" scenario...
    Indeed. I know firsthand that the top speed of a Yugo filled with four ~200-pound 16-year-olds is 96 miles per hour.
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  18. #57
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark
    Any of you that have been on top of this arch know why his buddy turned back. It gives me the heee beee jeeeebbeees. Been there once rappeled off once and not goin back.
    And there's bolts up there, apparantly???


  19. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia
    Nothing personal, Sarah Lizzy. Brian and Shane beat this corpse-of-a-horse every time the opportunity presents. Mostly for sport, I think...
    Chicken and egg deal.... which came first???

    Do we talk about this so often for sport.... or do we talk about this so often because of the high number of accidents????

    Just askin'....

    and FWIW.... I think biner blocks, skinny ropes and single strand rope are all great tools.... maybe we just need to review the combination?

    I mean really... a lawn mower is a great tool.... but not for trimming the hedge...


  20. #59
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    When I was up there, there are two bolts with chains that are used as the primary rappelling ones. And then there are 4-5 other bolts just on south of it, maybe a 1-2ft away (I imagine for multiple rappellers).

    My left hand was free and was just dangling until I got past the bottom of the arch and was free-hanging. Then I didn't apply enough friction on the rope and had a tie a mule knot to let my hand glove cool down (way too hot!)

    From there I let go of the mule knot and continued on another 20 feet (without any problem or hesitation or worry, etc.) by just using my brake (right) hand, while my left hand was still dangling and waving in my pictures. And I wasn't going fast at all (just a slow, non-jerky, non-bouncy, "normal-rappelling speed"), when I pulled the mule knot. Then in a instant, just like that, that's when my hand just "gave up". It's so hard to explain what it felt like since I have never ever ever ever had that happen before.

    And before I knew it, I was on the ground. Yes, Matt, I could of used my left hand to grab the rope and that would of saved me. But when you are freefalling to your death (that's what I thought) you are not in the best mentally reactive state...at least I figured that out. You might you be better at that than me...I dunno...You can tell me when you do have that experience.

    Yea, oldno, if we did a simul-rap and both of us would of went down and we both got hurt - it would of been a long......long.........long...........long.......v ery painful........ excruciatingly painful....very cold dark night.

    And not to mention, that when you break your hand or ankle, you have to be very wary of condition called "compartment sydrome". It's when the blood from the swelling goes into your tissues (because it has no room to expand) and those tissues die within minutes - which leads to amputation, if there is no treatment (they basically filet the organ or area to drain the blood) within 20 minutes.

    It's a good thing I remembered that fact, and kept my shoes and socks on when Ian was doing a rapid assessment on me. The socks and shoes probably kept the swelling reduced...otherwise it would probably led to both feet or legs amputated. SCARY!

    All I can say, is remember the transition and speed of descent when you transition from wall to free-rappel. Much different (unless you are super anorexic and amazingly skinny than you don't need to worry so much, but a fat man like me (190lbs) needs to remember it! Apparently, I forgot that for a second until I slowed myself down to let my glove cool down.

    And, I broke #1 rule of rappelling, belay. That's what it comes down to.

    I have plenty of experience, and as someone was mentioning above, I probably fit into the category of "I know everything and have enough experience that "nothing bad will happen to me" "...yeah right, If only I can see the future!!

    Well, thanks for the well-wishs, as I have now re-read your posts and see that you don't mean it personally (I would think so). But I have an Ortho appt on Monday and possibly surgery next week. I'll keep ya up to date on it.

    Oh, I'll try and get more pictures up.

  21. #60
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Brian in Africa,

    Yup, that was the device he was referring to. The Redpoint descender. Since I'm not a rock-climber (although I do a little bouldering) I have never heard of this.

    You are right....they sound kinda iffy. But apparently my step-brother uses it and has worked "every" time. who knows....

    They look like a hassle to bring...but even if it prevented me from catering, it would be worth it I suppose...I dunno. Not my specialty.

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