My Tech Support Rant - web development

[Sombeech]

Before I get started, Firefox is my preferred browser. There is no need to convince me how much more nifty it is than any versions of Internet Explorer.

Although losing it's market share, Internet Explorer is still the close majority browser, mainly because most internet users bought a Windows machine and have never heard of Firefox. But it's still got the market share, keep that in mind.

If you are going to build a website, you want to consider this fact. Do not build it around Firefox just because you like it. And do not try to convince the thousands of IE visitors to your site that they must download Firefox to view your site properly. This is terrible service for the end user.

If you want to convince the internet world 1 person at a time to convert to Firefox, you've got a long road ahead of you. Besides... just let Mozilla do that for you. They have a marketing budget, and they're doing a good job already.



Now.... In our school district, we use Internet Explorer 8. This is not like a business or a home where you are responsible for your own browsing. These things are policy, voted upon, discussed in board meetings, that kind of stuff. We base our security around 1 browser, because it's easier than 2. We're locked down tight. Why? Because when a minor accesses porn on YOUR network, it's YOUR fault. The law gets a little uptight when you're dealing with children and porn.....

Again, don't convince me how secure Firefox is, I'm right there with ya. It's just the job of doubling down on your security system with double the browsers, if that makes any sense. And with budget cutbacks, more to manage is just out of the question. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but that's a summary of why.

__________________________________________________ ________



So anyways, I was on the phone today with Tech Support at UEN.org, Utah Education Network's website. They had a webcast page that would NOT load with any version of Internet Explorer. They were trying to tell us to install Firefox because the "security features on this site were vulnerable with Internet Explorer".

After wasting my breath about how I love Firefox too but this is absolutely not an option for us, the 18 year old just wasn't understanding. He continued to try to sell me on Firefox.

I pointed out that a "logical" website construction would be friendly to Internet Explorer, the majority of browsers, whether he or I like it or not. He AGAIN tried to convince me how cool Firefox was and it was secure, blah blah blah. I could sense the Mozilla poster hanging in his cubicle. I then tried to explain the "mind frame" of Internet Explorer users and that installing Firefox would be a completely different internet experience, just to view their stupid website.

He said it's just like updating Flash or Java. I replied, Yes... and I have to help about 50% of these teachers to do just that - update Flash Player. Most users don't understand that either.

I told him that I knew it wasn't his decision, and it's not his fault, but I asked if he could just see that it's not wise to cut out the majority internet browser. He couldn't.

In the end, teachers now have to go home after hours, install Firefox, and watch archived sessions of the webcast training they missed during the day.

For the 3rd time, I use Firefox almost exclusively, so if you're like that punk and didn't catch that the first 2 times, don't try to convince me. Plus, if IE8 was so vulnerable, my wife wouldn't be able to do her online banking with it.

UEN is afraid somebody will hack in and watch a !&$*#$! webcast. Alpha numeric passwords for this stuff, seriously? You're talking to people that have their passwords on a Post It note stuck to their monitor.



That is my rant. Thanks for listening.

[Cirrus2000]

I can't believe you insist on running IE8. If you really got it, you'd have Firefox running. Seriously.








Good rant.

OK, so, I work on a website, BC Mountaineering Club, hobby stuff, just for fun, and I've tested it with IE8, FF, Chrome, Safari, etc. Works with the major browsers. However, for some users (I've had comments from 3 people) it does not load - at all. They all use IE8, and are at work locations. Their security people have looked at it, and scratch their heads. Any suggestions? Thoughts?

http://bcmc.ca - does it work for you?!?

[stefan]

nice rant ... i agree, you need to develop for all the major browsers.


except IE6 maybe if you want to ignore that audience

[ststephen]

bcmc.ca loaded fine on Firefox

Oh, you meant on that other browser...OK yeah it loaded on that one too

Not to hijack the thread, but I hope you can do that Nepal trek your club is organizing! [I'll take my answer off-thread]

Back on topic, yeah you have to code/test for IE first. But it's equally bad to not make it at least work on Firefox as well. I hate it when I get pages that rely on Windows proprietary hooks.

[stefan]

http://bcmc.ca - does it work for you?!?

looks good on camino too

[Sombeech]

http://bcmc.ca - does it work for you?!?

Yes, I can open this in IE8, compatibility mode and normal, protected and non.


One more note, if you (somebody) want to create a website preferably for Firefox browsers, at least have a download link for Firefox suggested right there. ...you know, how when you go to watch a streaming video and you don't have Flash installed, it tells you and gives a link to install? Let's agree to disagree and at least give a link for these internet noobs to click on.

[R]

http://bcmc.ca - does it work for you?!?

looks good on camino too

I am about five more "beach ball of death" appearances from switching back to Camino. I don't know why, but the newest iterations of Firefox are slow!

[accadacca]

I love the IE8 banners at the bottom of this screen.

[Sombeech]

So this was yesterday. I'll tell you about another time 2 months ago.

A lot of High Schools across the state (more than just our school district) purchased a software license for a Health & Nutrition class. The software is a web application (you run this program on the internet on a web page)

Same issue, it doesn't operate in IE8 or IE7, it stalls out, pages won't load, crashes... etc.

I call support and yet again I'm being sold on Firefox. And again I must explain that they're preachin' to the choir because I'm a Firefox fan. I've been using it & loving it even before they created their first myspace page.

Falling on deaf ears. I explain my plea again that IE is the largest browser, not to make people change browsers just for their site, it's terrible customer service

And this whole time as I'm explaining what my screen is doing, they're STILL viewing it in Firefox. During the first 15 minutes, this Tech Support chick didn't even once try to open it in Internet Explorer just to see what I was experiencing. She just kept saying it was fine on her end. I asked again, "And you're viewing this in IE8, right?"

"...umm, hold on." Now I'm on hold for 10 minutes.

They come back finally and say, "yes, this is working on IE8" which I know is a complete lie because it's their lunch break. Why waste more time on this.

So I end the call and find out that EVERY high school in northern Utah, different districts, different software security settings, are having trouble viewing this in IE8. So I know it's not something funky I've put on my computers here that have disabled some strange function.

In the end, you really can't blame Tech Support. They're doing a job and saying what they've been told to say, most of them are not responsible for the architecture of the software.

But they can at least learn to acknowledge that the customer is right once in a while, and that their boss needs to fix something.... not defend a bad idea to the death.

So in the end, their goal is to make their paying customers convert to a different web browser just to view and use what they paid for. If this was really that important and necessary, there would at least be a little tiny note mentioning that "This site is best viewed with Firefox" and a friendly download link.

And again, playing the "security" card on this website is redonkulous. Security for a health class website? Somebody might hack in and view course material? Let's be honest. The developers love Firefox and they made the site in Firefox without checking compatibility. Now their plan is to praise the security features of Firefox.

[Deathcricket]

I'm enjoying this thread man. Let me try this from another side. I work for Oracle and we have about 90,000 employees, we don't support IE either.

Lets say you have 2 buckets for holding water. One bucket is full of holes and leaks constantly and the other bucket has a couple holes but they are fixed pretty fast. Bucket "b" is pretty much superior to bucket "a" in every way. Bucket "b" is even cheaper to purchase. A customer using bucket "a" comes up to you and says, "hey this bucket is not holding water properly" and you respond "well yeah because that bucket sucks". And he responds "but this bucket is from Walmart and 60% of the people on the planet use it to carry water, you need to fix my bucket".

So you have two choices. You can hire twice your staff, increase operating costs, and have a bunch of people try to help your customer fix that POS bucket "a" or you can try and convince him that bucket "b" is superior in every way except market share. You can try and tell him that when bucket "a" leaks all over the hardwood floors, you have to clean up the mess. You can tell him that he will have to put twice as much water in bucket "a" to get enough home to fill his pot to cook with. You can point out the shoddy workmanship where the bucket is not sealed properly. But will he listen? No. He will just conplain that this is the bucket he has always used and no way he is going to change.

I simply explain that we don't support IE and move on to the next call. If they called back I would send them a copy of the manual where it states that we don't support it and tell them to RTFM. I'm surprised the guy spent that much time with you. But then again, I'm not known for my customer service skills, just my speed in handling issues.

[Sombeech]

you can try and convince him that bucket "b" is superior in every way except market share.

yeah, but I already know my bucket sucks.

With Oracle, I understand. You have some data that you might actually like to keep secure.

With Education related webcasts and course syllabus PDF downloads, these guys are trying to blame IE for not being "secure enough" for their site, which is total BS. They created it in Firefox, tested it in Firefox, and didn't even think about testing in IE, and now they're playing the security card.

And again, the users that they want to keep secure? They have their passwords on Post It notes stuck to their monitors. There's just no reason for this kind of security on their environment.

[Deathcricket]

Hehe!

No I understand what you are saying too. It's like you're stuck between two rocks and neither will budge. That's where the frustration comes in I think.

What if UEN.org got hacked by some IE backdoor action and they posted "tubgirl" or "goatse" on there for every teacher, woman, and child to view in it's anal glory though? Heads would roll. I see that happen at least once a week and the big wigs come in and fire someone really fast for incompetence.

So even though perhaps the info on there isn't completely confidential. Keeping kids and teachers safe and site running 24/7 hacked free is a higher priority IMO. The good news though is once enough school users complain, hopefully the light will be seen and you guys can be switched over. Perhaps not though. I've seen programs in place for goverment agencies that should have been canned decades ago, and they aren't. Yer probably just screwed on this.

[Sombeech]

Had to bump this thread, I saw it in the "Similar Threads"

What if UEN.org got hacked by some IE backdoor action and they posted "tubgirl" or "goatse" on there for every teacher, woman, and child to view in it's anal glory though? Heads would roll.

Ah, I know man, we take the content at the schools very seriously because of the minors. But this was for an online webcast for staff members regarding how to operate a certain math program.

When the dude told me they use Firefox because of it's superior security, I was wondering why in the world somebody would try and hack a user account so they could watch a webcast for 45 minutes.

The security thing I completely understand, but having the dude tell me the reason the whole staff needs to hurry and install Firefox just to watch this webcast was absolutely ludicrous.

I even ran into this online program used at school called "Diet Analysis" with lessons on health and all that junk. Same thing, it wouldn't run in IE8. Here I go to call Tech Support and have some JACKASS giving me the FF vs IE8 security schpill. So is this company that insecure that they've got this potential security threat somewhere on their control panel and they can't figure it out? Yeah, Firefox will fix that then.

Meanwhile I've got a computer lab full of 33 students trying to log on as their testing period of 50 minutes is slowly melting away while the tech support is running down the talking points regarding Firefox.


EDIT: Oh wait, I already mentioned this above. haha, it's been a while.

Anyways, so I thought I'd dig this up again.

The school year is beginning again, I'm sure I'll have more stories.