Standard 'kit' for a canyon like Larry

[ratagonia]

BDC said: I'd be curious what your standard "stuff" is, Tom. Why don't you tell us exactly what was in your pack for, say, the Black Hole at the recent Freeze Fest, along with what you'd carry for Larry with friends, and compared to what you'd carry if you were guiding it.

so that is the topic for this thread. A canyon like Larry, what is your 'standard kit', under different conditions. Here's some responses to a bit less expansive version of that question:

(for anyone who wants to discuss this, please include what rappel device you use and how many biners you use with it)

I typically use an ATC/ATCxp. I use a locker with it, typically an autolock with a plastic sleeve that has long since lost the ability to autolock so I give it a quarter turn manually. I like it (old DMM's not made anymore, but, I bought around 10 of them, but, only have one or two not grooved out to the point of silly and/or the locking mechanism still sorta functions).

Then I bring a couple of hotwires to add friction since I'm prone to using skinny ropes. Then a couple more biners for fun. A few slings. Set of Prusik cords (my standard now is a single Prusik and a tied rabbit runner that I can use as a small valdy if needed. Both out of that Mammut pro cord 6mm which seems to work well on several thinner ropes).

What are the extra items for: 5 prusiks, valdotain, etrier? 12 carabiners - does that include Chungy's, or did he also bring a pound-a-biners?

I guess this stuff all adds up, but, not really out of the ball park. I've found on numerous occasions that a light alpine aider (etrier) or two is super handy in a canyon. And light and compact enough that they're easy to stash/carry.

Could use the Prusiks for anchors (knot chocks, etc). Valdy is handy for a number of things (up and down a loaded rope, etc). Spare biners are nice. If you needed to rig just about anything (raise, lower, etc) you'd burn up a pile of them for sure.

Almost would prefer to have two standard biners over a single locker. Less chance for the gate to get stuck (sand gets into everything).

Maybe this should be a separate thread too? Standard minimum?

I'd be curious what your standard "stuff" is, Tom. Why don't you tell us exactly what was in your pack for, say, the Black Hole at the recent Freeze Fest, along with what you'd carry for Larry with friends, and compared to what you'd carry if you were guiding it.

Then let us pick it apart (ha ha).

These guys have been more than accomodating with the what, why, when, where, etc. Now lets see what you got.

-Brian in SLC

ATC XP - usually carry 5 carabiners - one big pear to rap off. 2 attache for biner blocks and tiblocs, etc... and 1 or 2 small locking biners for bunny straps.

though, depending on the canyon i carry more or less. and i'm notorious for taking too few.

for larry, i'd carry 5.

I'll jump in on this. For gear I use an ATC-XP and I normally pack anywhere from 4 to 6 locking biners depending on the canyon and size of the pack I'll be using. For Larry I'd probably take 4. I also always pack extra webbing, some tiblocs, a couple of slings and sometimes a potshot or two.

I remember carrying way too much with me when I first started running canyons. Over the years and as I've gained experience, I've started to learn what's really critical and what's not but I'm always looking for new ideas to refine and clean up my gear/essentials/possibles bag.

I too would be interested in knowing what Tom uses and packs with him most of the time.

Tom

[ratagonia]

I'd be curious what your standard "stuff" is, Tom. Why don't you tell us exactly what was in your pack for, say, the Black Hole at the recent Freeze Fest, along with what you'd carry for Larry with friends, and compared to what you'd carry if you were guiding it.

Tom Jones, Black Hole 1/1/10:

Heaps Pack (in this canyon, bigger is better - more flotation, to a point).
25 liter drybag
Harness (Alpine Bod, my light one) - comes with a Clipster safety leash
Rappel Device (Pirana w/biner)
Three extra carabiners. Knife, two rap rings, two Tiblocs.
Three over-the-shoulder slings.
Two handled ascenders (for the finish)
Large size Sam Splint (resident in the back pocket of my pack)

Set of clothing I expected to be walking in with = pants, fleece zip shirt, puffball zip top. Balaclava (fleece, Jrat brand).
BD 9 oz bivy bag
Gloves to walk in (vs. the Neo gloves I had on).
1 qt of water (I've taken more in the past, never drunk more than 1 qt)
Meat and cheese sandwich
Bag of cookies (4 oz, lame imitation Oreos)
4 oz Kahlua brownies (to share, but they never came out)
Headlamp, lighter
Pill bottle (Benedryl, ibu, tylenol, Clariton)

Wearing:
5mm neo socks (ZAC/ARgos) w/ TEKO heavy wool hiker underneath
Canyoneer2s (thanks Ram!)
Camaro super 5mm dry-type wetsuit, well used, stiff, ungainly
Medium Wt Capilene bottoms under wetsuit
Medium Wt Capilene top under wetsuit
Neoprene gloves
Helmet
BD under-helmet hat, the good version (no longer made)

Tom

[ratagonia]

Why don't you tell us exactly what you'd carry for Larry with friends, and compared to what you'd carry if you were guiding it.

Summer Larry w/ Ram (unlikely):

Mystery pack. Two over-the-shoulder slings tied to the pack.
Alp Bod harness w/ Clipster.
ATC-XP w/3 Attache biners.
2 tiblocs. 2 other biners. 2 other over-the-shoulder slings. Knife.
1 qt water. Sandwich. Snacks.
Sam Splint. Pill bottle. Lighter, sunscreen.
Helmet. Kneepads, Elbow pads. Golds Gym Neo Shorts.
Fleece pullover.
Wearing: shorts, tee shirt, suncap, Teko heavy hiker, Canyoneer2.

Group Gear:
2 x 120 foot 8mm ropes, or so. With Ram, 1 would be a 100' pull cord.
30 feet of webbing, 1" tubular, black. I usually replace the 1st rap sling as it is inevitably "circus colors". I then have the "circus colors" to use later in the canyon.
2 rap rings. Maybe more webbing and rings if doing it first thing in the spring.

Spring or Fall: bring along the clothing required to be comfortable standing around before we leave. Add balaclava and BD Winter Bivy.

Larry w/ small private team incl some beginners, summer, spring or fall:

Mystery pack. Two over-the-shoulder slings tied to the pack.
Momentum AL Harness w/2 clipsters and scuttlebutt (my 'working' harness')
Pirana w/ 1 Attache biner.
2 tiblocs. 3 other biners incl 2 Attaches. 2 other over-the-shoulder slings. Knife.
2 qts water, 3 in summer. Sandwich. Snacks. More snacks.
Sam Splint. Pill bottle. Lighter, sunscreen.
Helmet. Kneepads, Elbow pads. Golds Gym Neo Shorts.
Fleece pullover.
Wearing: shorts, tee shirt, suncap, Teko heavy hiker, Canyoneer2.
balaclava and BD Winter Bivy.

Group Gear:
2 x 120 foot 8mm ropes, or so. I would likely go last at all rappels, and have one of the 120 foot ropes in my possession at all times.
50 feet of webbing, 1" tubular, black. I usually replace the 1st rap sling as it is inevitably "circus colors". I then still have black webbing to use later in the canyon. 4 rap rings. We would re-rig every anchor so we could classroom them.

Spring or Fall: bring along the clothing required to be comfortable standing around before we leave.

Bigger Group: add another 120 foot rope.

Guiding: Kolob Pack. Add small first aid kit. Add Rescue rope - one 100' 8mm rope in the bottom of my pack, that would likely go un-used. An extra quart of water. An extra head lamp.

Winter all cases: more clothing as expected to be needed in the canyon. Bigger headlamp. puffball jacket and pants.

Howz Dat? Pick Away mi amigos!

Tom

[Felicia]

Howz Dat? Pick Away mi amigos!

No duct tape?

[ratagonia]

Howz Dat? Pick Away mi amigos!

No duct tape?

Should! Will!

T