Anchors

[vader]

I lurk around here in the Canyoneering sections sometimes, but I haven't posted very often. I have been a caver for the last 25+ years and haven't done but a few walking canyons, Bell, Little Wild horse, the upper part of Eardly and canyons like that. Since I cave, I am familiar with fixed anchors, but the Idea of anchors that can be retrieved is for the most part new to me. I have used 1 retrievable anchor before. I am not sure what it is called, but you basicly doubled a rope through an anchor using 2 biners. You run both parts of the rope through your figure 8 and When you rappel to the bottom, the rope can be retrieved by pulling on one side of it. Once the rope is out the anchor can be retrieved by using a small pull cord. I have been using the following link to look at other types of retrieveable anchors.

http://www.canyonwiki.com/wiki/index...eering_Anchors

but it seems they all have other problems. I can see when some of them should be used in defferent situations. I am sure I already sound pretty ignorant, but at the risk of sounding even more, Why would you use another type of anchor other than the kind mentioned above? and does anybody know of a good link that talks about these kinds of anchors and when and why they should be used.

Thanks

[oldno7]

Hi Vader
I see no ignorance in asking a great question(I think that is how we solve the ignorance thing), I only see ignorance as an issue if one heads into a canyon without this knowledge. Anchors building is an art with limits that have yet to be met, the only limits I see are imagination and training. With the way you asked the question, complete with a wiki link, I would suggest the training.
And alas--as luck would have it I can help you here. I have a course in Moab in April, there is still room if you might be interested.

http://www.redrockcanyoneering.net/

The website is small but our courses cover all you will need to get into this great sport. I suggest the technical course.
or you can email me direct at-----cougar at netutah dot com

Kurt

[Canyonbug]

but it seems they all have other problems. I can see when some of them should be used in defferent situations... Why would you use another type of anchor other than the kind mentioned above?

and does anybody know of a good link that talks about these kinds of anchors and when and why they should be used.

Vader -

No question is dumb only dumb answers so I hope this answer is at least OK.

All anchors are inherently dangerous. Some more so than others. They all have breaking points. Anchors should be built as strong as possible. Most Canyoneers prefer to use Natural anchors whenever possible (ie. big rocks and trees, horns, cracks etc.) Unlike caving and climbing we very rarely return the way we came so we want to use inexpensive items that we can leave behind (webbing and rap rings or quick-links). We set it up in a way that we can leave these anchors behind and pull our rope down so we can continue on down the canyon with our rope. We bring enough material to set up these types of anchors through out the canyon.

When we talk about retrievable anchors we are setting up the entire system so we don't leave anything at all behind. We are able to pull the rope, webbing, and rings down and continue on down the canyon. These anchors have a bit more risk involved than the "standard" anchors used in that if not set properly they can come undone while one is on rappel. Because of this these are usually only used for the last person to rappel. The "lead" Canyoneer would set a static anchor for everyone else to rappel on then re-set a retrievable for him/herself.

This is also used for a practice called "Ghosting" a canyon. You try to take everything with you to leave the appearance that no one was there.

As far as links, there used to be a really good paper on anchors by Dave Black online, but I just tried to pull it up and it looks like the website is gone. The Wiki link you have covers a lot of the major players in the Canyoneers anchor arsenal.

I hope this explanation of Canyoneering anchors helps out.

[Iceaxe]

I think might be the WWW article that CanyonBug was looking for.

Alternative Anchoring - by Dave Black
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/mag/issue1/natural.htm

[Canyonbug]

I think might be the WWW article that CanyonBug was looking for.

Alternative Anchoring - by Dave Black
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/mag/issue1/natural.htm

Shane, thanks. That is the one I was looking for. It has been moved or I was thinking it was somewhere else.

[Iceaxe]

Dave Black also has a canyoneering how-to book out.

Canyoneering: A Guide to Techniques for Wet and Dry Canyons
(How To Climb Series) (Paperback)

[Canyonbug]

Dave Black also has a canyoneering how-to book out.

Shane - Yes he does! Happens to be available and in stock online: http://www.northwashoutfitters.com/s...&productId=163

I went and pulled out my notebook where I have saved some hard copies of online files I have collected over the years and the version of Dave's Anchors article that I have was quite a bit longer than the one you linked to. I also have an unpublished manuscript from Dave that shows quite a bit of anchor and ghosting techniques. He's a smart man to hang around in a canyon with.

Since we've lost all shame and are promoting anchor gurus, I'll promote myself. I am going to be teaching an anchors workshop in the Salt Lake City area February 20th and there will be another one on the 27th. It is sponsored by the ACA. It is free but open to members only. If anyone would like to come but are not yet a member it costs only $25 for membership. Anyone interested can contact me personally or register at: http://www.meetup.com/ACA-Canyoneeri...ndar/12309002/

[Iceaxe]

Here is some more on-line anchor and skillz info that might be of use:

Canyoneering Primer
http://climb-utah.com/Misc/natural.htm

[Iceaxe]

I am going to be teaching an anchors workshop in the Salt Lake City area February 20th and there will be another one on the 27th.

Just curious.... how or where are you going to hold this workshop when everything in the City of Salt is normally frozen solid and under at least a foot of snow that time of year?

.

[Canyonbug]

Here is some more on-line anchor and skillz info that might be of use:

Canyoneering Primer
http://climb-utah.com/Misc/natural.htm

Thanks for posting this. I also have this hard copied to my file, another great resource.

Uh, end of February. Hopefully the snow will be diminished enough. I'm not worrying about the location, I'm just showing up to teach where I'm told it will be at.

[vader]

There is a wealth of information there. Thanks for helping a beginner out.