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12-12-2009, 11:12 AM #1
Larry Canyon Debrief Part I: Trip Choice and Preparation
Please read debrief format before posting to this thread.
Part I will discuss everything up to entering the canyon, including choice of partners and canyon, choice of stuff brought along and events at the start of the day. This will allow the 'players' to introduce themselves and provide information about their background (aka 'resume').
Here are the relevant paragraphs from the story told to date:
[quote=Chungy22]
I am Nick's (jaxx's) little bro and the hiker that was not injured in this whole ordeal. Have fun reading.
Larry Canyon 2009
We decided to go on one last canyoneering trip before the snow came in and would not allow us to backpack in the beautiful southern Utah slot canyons. My Dad and I were very excited about this weekend. We were going to first go to camp inbetween the Larry Canyon entrance and exit so that we could start from there in the morning.
The voyage down was pretty uneventful. We left Orem around 4 PM on Friday December 4th. We went to scout where the canyons were that we were going to hike. We were going to hike Larry Canyon on Saturday and then the shorter Alcatraz Canyon on Sunday before we left. We drove to the first rappel in Alcatraz and it is supposed to be 165
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12-12-2009 11:12 AM # ADS
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12-12-2009, 11:15 AM #2
a matter of timing.
[quote=TNTRebel]
Maybe this belongs in the new blog started by ratagonia, but I'll post here first...What gear did we carry and what was the gear that saved us, and what did we
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12-15-2009, 01:29 PM #3Originally Posted by Jaxx
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12-16-2009, 01:16 PM #4
[quote=ratagonia]a matter of timing.
[quote=TNTRebel]
Maybe this belongs in the new blog started by ratagonia, but I'll post here first...What gear did we carry and what was the gear that saved us, and what did we
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12-16-2009, 02:56 PM #5
I have found these posts educational and I am going to get more prepared in the future. I'm looking for some opinions if the spot had not come thru what would of been the best plan at that point? How long would of it been before your families would of known you were missing?
Again thanks for all of the posts they have opened my eyes up to if something goes south.
Mark
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12-16-2009, 05:22 PM #6Originally Posted by moab mark
Tom
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12-17-2009, 07:37 PM #7
(damn moderator malfunction... this is TNTrebel's response. i accidentally split it off when split the topic. now i have to figure out how to move it back.)
[quote=TNTrebel]Sorry for the delay in posting and this post will not provide what ya
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12-24-2009, 12:05 PM #8
1. Who are you, what is your experience, what is your training? A brief resume of canyons done and your role in prior adventures (leader, follower, heckler) and conditions (ie, have you done stuff in winter before), plus any training you have had either formal or informal, and with whom, plus age and general fitness level. Please include First Aid/Medical training in that resume. TNT-had you had knee problems previously?
Well, I am 22 and in very good shape. Not the best of my life, but still in very good condition to hike and rappel all day. I am an avid soccer player so fitness is usually not too big an issue for me. Honestly for the experience that I have and then training. It hasn't been too much. I have always gone rappelling with just my Dad. I have been through, I think, 3 canyons besides this one. I have been through two canyons in the Blue John area and then through Granary canyon near Moab. All of those canyons were pretty technical especially Granary. I have always been the follower in those canyons and Larry canyon was kind of the first one that I setup the rappels under the supervision of my Dad. We have done canyons in the early spring before when it was very cold, but never in the winter before. I have only been trained by my Dad both in the canyon and at the HansenMurphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong, it will."
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12-24-2009, 12:20 PM #9That sounds like the question: did Chungy have the skills and resources to complete the final raps, hike to the exit, climb to the rim and make the distress call (on Sunday morning, at first light)? Sun coming up about 7, seems like could get to the car about 10:30ish? Cell phone in the car? Signal available from there?
anyway.... to answer that. I think that I would have had enough water and food to get me the rest of the way out of the canyon and finish the last rappels. I set a few of the earlier rappels in the canyon and then rappelled just fine down them in the dark with SAR. The only thing that would have been difficult would have been finding the exit crack. If my Dad showed me how to use the GPS I think that I would have been able to do that. We decided the first night in the canyon that if there wasn't anyone who contacted us either I would hike out alone and call someone or we would try to hike out together. We did have a signal from where we were and it would not have been too hard to get all the way to the car for me. Especially if I knew that my Dad was still just sitting in the canyon. The thing that worried both of us though was having to split up. We probably would have tried to get my dad down the last two rappels and as far as he could go before we split up.Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong, it will."
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12-24-2009, 02:13 PM #10Originally Posted by Chungy22
Will be interested to see what your Dad has to say to these questions.
Tom
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12-24-2009, 02:29 PM #11
Re: Larry Canyon Debrief Part I: Trip Choice and Preparation
Originally Posted by ratagonia
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12-24-2009, 02:43 PM #12
Re: Larry Canyon Debrief Part I: Trip Choice and Preparation
Originally Posted by ratagonia
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12-24-2009, 02:52 PM #13Originally Posted by ratagonia
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12-24-2009, 04:39 PM #14Originally Posted by ratagonia
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12-24-2009, 10:18 PM #15
Thanks for all you've shared! This is really helpful.
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12-26-2009, 11:17 AM #16Originally Posted by ratagonia
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12-26-2009, 12:57 PM #17Originally Posted by ratagonia
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12-26-2009, 01:03 PM #18Originally Posted by dbaxter
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12-28-2009, 08:44 AM #19
I told you he would be more thorough on getting you information. I am very glad that he was so detailed about everything. It gives a better idea about what we have done. I have done almost all of those non-technical canyons with him as well. I just specified the technical canyons in my post. And like Tntrebel I would like to thank everyone for not beating on us too bad. There were mistakes made, but we have learned from them and will implement those lessons in the canyons that we do in the future.
Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong, it will."
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12-28-2009, 11:04 AM #20Originally Posted by Chungy22
ha ha... well, it IS Christmas time.
The amount of detail provided is wonderful. Much criticism takes place in an environment based on few details and lots of assumptions. By providing massive amounts of detail, you have short-circuited the usual internet path of unproductive discussion.
Originally Posted by Chungy22
The NEXT step is for you to point out the lessons you have learned, and then we can open it to general discussion
I think it would be a better place to view it from, if you take the viewpoint that you do NOT YET know the lessons from this incident, and keep an open mind as to what those lessons are.
Tom
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