Questions for a Trip to Grand Gulch

[Appalachia]

Hello, Everyone,

I'm putting in the last-minute preparations for my trip from Atlanta to AZ/UT next week. My boyfriend and I (both experienced cold weather backpackers, long-distance runners, scramblers, peak baggers, etc.) are planning to backpack in Grand Gulch for several days during the second week of November.

I'd greatly appreciate some information from the locals.

1) We are seeing high temps of 50 or so in Mexican Hat (that's where we're staying Saturday night before we set out) and around freezing at night. We are used to those temps when we winter backpack in the South, so we will be prepared and have the proper gear. I am actually hoping that it will be fairly warm at the bottom of the gulch, much like it is in Grand Canyon and that maybe the drier air out there will actually make it feel warmer than equivalent temps here in the damp South. Should we expect snow or icy rock, especially in the side canyons?

2) I have books that list the perennial water sources in the Gulch, can we rely on those? What sort of water filter should we bring? I understand the water can be quite silty. We generally use drops to purify water, but it sounds like we'll need a Pur or MSF filter or similar.

3) Our tentative trip plan is to park at Todie Canyon and enter through there, and then head south through Grand Gulch, exit through Bullet Canyon and then walk back to Todie Canyon parking. We will have a small economy car. Will it be a problem to get to the trail head? Also, I understand that Todie Canyon can be pretty treacherous with all the scrambling and downclimbing. We are planning to bring a rope to help lower our packs, etc. Would it be easier to climb DOWN through Todie rather than climbing up through Todie? We don't mind all the scrambling, climbing, etc. since we are used to doing that kind of thing around here. I do wonder, however, how bad it could be if it were icy.

4) If we enter through Todie rather than Kane, will we miss a lot of the interesting ruins from Kane down to Todie? We are planning on spending three or four days to explore the Todie/Grand/Sheiks/Bullet areas.

5) Our plan after we surface at Bullet and then walk back to Todie is to then drive down Hwy 261 to the Government Trail parking area and then enter Grand Gulch through Polly's. We would spend three or days so in that area. Is that a fairly easy climb in? I haven't been able to find much information on it. We would then hike to Grand Gulch and then head south to Water Canyon and exit there. I haven't found much information on how difficult it is to exit Water Canyon. Maps show a parking area near the top of that Canyon that says "Drill Hole" but, again, I haven't found much information on it.

6) Are we missing anything by not exploring Grand Gulch from Bullet down to Polly's? I understand that area is quite overgrown and difficult to navigate (not that we don't enjoy bushwhacking!).

7) What weather conditions would have to exist to make this type of trip "undoable"? In a worst case scenario, if we weren't able to pull off this trip, what would be a good "Plan B"? I'm thinking if it's REALLY bad, we'd just head south and do something in Arizona!

Thanks in advance for your help, everyone!

Cheers,
Lucinda

[Scott P]

We are seeing high temps of 50 or so in Mexican Hat (that's where we're staying Saturday night before we set out) and around freezing at night. We are used to those temps when we winter backpack in the South, so we will be prepared and have the proper gear. I am actually hoping that it will be fairly warm at the bottom of the gulch, much like it is in Grand Canyon and that maybe the drier air out there will actually make it feel warmer than equivalent temps here in the damp South.

Grand Gulch is not as warm as the Grand Canyon. It isn

[ststephen]

3) Our tentative trip plan is to park at Todie Canyon and enter through there, and then head south through Grand Gulch, exit through Bullet Canyon and then walk back to Todie Canyon parking. We will have a small economy car. Will it be a problem to get to the trail head? Also, I understand that Todie Canyon can be pretty treacherous with all the scrambling and downclimbing. We are planning to bring a rope to help lower our packs, etc. Would it be easier to climb DOWN through Todie rather than climbing up through Todie? We don't mind all the scrambling, climbing, etc. since we are used to doing that kind of thing around here. I do wonder, however, how bad it could be if it were icy.

I attempted a day hike down Todie with my family a few years back. We found the scrambling challenging but not too bad. But the route finding stumped us about mid-way down. We kept trying to find a route and just couldn't figure it out. Felt like a noob but we finally gave up and went over to a different canyon that day.

I suggest getting some good beta on Todie; especially with full packs it could be a bummer to be stumped like we were.

Then again maybe we just were blind that day or something...

[RedRoxx]

Backpacked in Grand Gulch from most all the TH's over the years. My absolutely favorite trip was after a spring storm going in at the Government TH and down to the San Juan and back. Not as many ruins but some interesting stuff relatively untouched as not on the main route, fantastic rock art , an arch and solitude. A bit of a bushwack but not bad. Sections of beautiful slick rock floor with pools that was heaven to travel.

Need to do that one again sometime.

[denaliguide]

the temps won't be aas warm as in the grand canyon. altitudes are much higher. mesa tops are 5000' +. snow is a possibility.

putting in at todie doesn't miss that much. turkey pen and junction ruins are the main ones. there are plenty of things to see between todie and bullet to keep you busy for days.

by not going below bullet you do miss some cool stuff. especially step canyon, dripping canyon, long house and big man panel.

going down polly is a nice trip. route finding is not really a problem. there is a great campsite at the confluence of polly and grand gulch. instead of exiting at govt. trail though you can continue down canyon and exit deer creek and it brings you up to the road to the govt. trailhead. just find the spring in deer creek and follow it up the south fork of the canyon canyon and keep going generally eastward and you will cross the road eventually.

another trip is to enter deer creek from the south. you can park at a pullout not far from the drill hole you mention at the head of water canyon (about 1 mile before you turn west to the drill hole) theres a 90 degrees turn in the road (on the usgs topo its near the "E" in mesa) and a water trough at the parking area. you would hike back towards the corral you passed and head north orienteering your way to the south rim of deer creek. head east to the first easy way in and down deer creek. then you head down grand gulch. you can get out water canyon. im not sure how to describe it, but with some exploring you will find a way out. if you know where the spring in water canyon is, go east and then the left fork (which heads straight to the drill hole) and the canyon has a rotten log you can use to exit on the south side. (if you can find it)

alternativey just below the narrows in grand gulch there are 2 canyons that exit to the east. both will get you out and its a short hike from the top back to your car. first one is about 1/2 mile below the narrows and is rather short and has a neat exit route which puts you on the rin near 5224AT. the second canyon is about 1mile or so below the narrows and has an easy exit out it.

remember that if the roads turn to crap that the drill hole trailhead is about as far from the highway as you can get.

all springs should be flowing. any filter will work. bugs won;t be a worry, so a tent isn't really neccessary. i always just use a tarp.

any other questions, send a pm. have fun.

[Appalachia]

Thanks, everyone, for all the great information. This is very helpful! I'm really looking forward to this trip.

Cheers,
Lucinda

[Reddirtdawg]

Lucinda ~ Please let us know how this trip went for you when you get back. I for one am anxious to hear about it.
Thanks

[Cirrus2000]

I'm looking forward to seeing the report, too! I had a super trip through there (Kane Gulch to Collins Canyon) at the start of April '08 . Kind of hard to add anything to what the others have said, though. One pointer: denaliguide knows what he's talking about - listen to him!

Have a great time!

[Iceaxe]

denaliguide knows what he's talking about - listen to him!

x2

[Appalachia]

Thanks, everyone. It was a great trip. I will get a TR together soon.

Basically, we parked at Bullet, walked cross country and dropped in at the Todie "down climb" (not as bad as I thought it would be) and then spent the next five days hiking south and exploring all the side canyons along the way.

We scrambled out of an area just north of the Big Pouroff (it's the obvious flat area on the topo, about .25 mile north of the Big Pouroff). There's a nice campsite there and a cairn...is the cairn there to point the way to the exit we found? It looks like there are a lot of great exits in that area to explore.

Denali, I would love to try some of the exits you mentioned near the Narrows, but that will have to wait for a future trip :)

Dripping and Green House canyons had dead ends after about a mile, but I'd love to go back and figure out how to get past the obstructions and make my way through to the ends of the canyons. Looks like fun!!