Need some input on: When God intervenes on your behalf.

[Deathcricket]

I'm scared this is going to get nasty, and that is not my intention. So if the mods want to toss this in the rubbish bin when personal attacks start flying I understand completly.

So I've been struggling with my religious views lately and trying to think about how I want to raise my son. "Instruct his ideals" if you will. I was raised in a hypocritical christian environment which basically means "do whatever you want during the week, god will forgive you on Sunday" and want nothing to do with that. So you could say I'm agnostic now I guess. I don't pretend to know one way or the other or have some perfect truth I need to spread around.

Anyways I'll bring up an instance and would like your input on this. There have been several but for the sake of argument will only mention one.

Situation: Little child runs into the street, car coming at 40 mph see's child in time, slams on breaks very hard and swerves. Misses child completely and doesn't even damage their car by crashing. My mom tells me story ending with "And god was really watching over that situation, he must really have big plans for that child".

I'm sure you guys have all heard stories where someone claims that god intervened in their life in some for some reason or fashion. But my natural response to her was "Oh so if god didn't have a use for the kid, he would have just let him splat?" And of course she starts a big long-winded conversation about how god has a plan for us and we can't begin to understand the nuances of it. And that I just need to have some

[DOSS]

Dear inhabitants of planet 234,586,981,458,900.3 V2 (you have named your planet Earth),

I am writing you this letter that I will place onto your internet so that it can propagate my apology to you. Let me first start with explaining how all of this happened, when I was in primary school in my elementary physics class we were assigned to create a miniaturized life support unit mine was designated by my instructor as planet 234,586,981,458,900.3 V2 (V2 due to the fact that I dropped it killing all of the lizard creatures that had grown from the primordial ooze that all creatures grow from) I will call it Earth henceforth as that is easier for you to refer to. I was supposed to terminate the project as soon as self aware life had formed VIA the evolutionary process but I had put the planet at the top of my closet and just plain forgot about it until a few hundred years ago your time.
When I found Earth again while I was cleaning my room I was amazed that you humans had created cities and even language (I was a little disappointed that some of the people had decided that everything that happened was due to some imaginary creature instead of the laws of physics and the cosmos but as it was only a primary school project I figured I shouldn

[RedMan]

It sounds to me like you know the answer.
Try not to let people with strong religious views influence your life too much.
My experience is that they really don't have a grip on their own.
The people that feel a need to enlighten you are always the worst.

Just remember that religion and faith are different things. One is created by men with a distinct agenda.

[Last Child]

Well I'll throw out my 2 cents. Of course you already know that I don't believe in god per se and also consider myself an agnostic.

I can give you what I was taught as a Mormon lad.

God is all knowing and already knows the future of everything that is going to happen or that has ever happend.

We are all born with the "light of Christ" or a conscience and at the age of 8 one can be blessed with the promptings of the holy ghost. This always confused me some but I came to understand that the holy ghost was more of a "super charged" conscience or someone to help us hear our conscience better. I worried a great deal about this when I left the church because I was taught that I would no longer have or receive those promptings. I'm glad that turned out to be wrong.

God does not intervene with our personal lives other than through the promptings of our conscience and holy ghost. If he were to do so that would remove us from the over all plan of being here to be tested and we could or no longer would have free agency. It would also give us an "out" as we would not have to take responsibility for our actions.

In a nutshell that is what I was taught and what we were taught to teach in the mission field.

I have a huge problem with people thinking and saying things like "god was watching over us and protected us" or whatever. Because I believe that kind of attitude does give one a sense of false superiority and in fact does remove all sense of self responsibility. We are all solely responsible for our own actions and no one or nothing else. I think the world would be a better place if everyone took full responsibility for all of their actions. Whether they be good or bad. Quit blaming Satan for all of the bad and giving credit to god for all of the good. You did it. Now own it.

The guy in the car swerved to miss the kid. End of story. He is fully responsible for that action and should get 100% credit and the kid is fully responsible for playing in the street. Just as the parents are fully responsible for not paying attention and letting him play in the street.

People only give credit to god for the good deeds and actions of people. Never do they give him/her credit for the bad. If so then you have to give credit to god for the kid in the street also.

I once blamed God for some bad shit in my life and it damned near killed me. Once I learned it's all up to me and only me... the whole world opened up and finally made sense.

Give credit and take credit where credit is due. Right here within oneself.

[Deathcricket]

2 great replies and a joke. Loving the responses. Thanks guys.

[DOSS]

2 great replies and a joke. Loving the responses. Thanks guys.

I don't appreciate that you say that my personal Belief system is a Joke...

~~~HAIL TAD~~~

[Don]

Ok, I understand that god not interfering in life does not disprove god.
My question then is; if god does not interfere in life, does not provide some benefit to a believer, why bother believing in him?

[DOSS]

Ok, I understand that god not interfering in life does not disprove god.
My question then is; if god does not interfere in life, does not provide some benefit to a believer, why bother believing in him?

its all for what happens after you die at that point.. the benefit is they will continue existing in some form of "Afterlife"

I would rather live for living than live for dieing

[Deathcricket]

[quote]Jesus said to her,

[Iceaxe]

The object of life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, 'Holy Shit, What a Ride!!!'

[JP]

So if the mods want to toss this in the rubbish bin when personal attacks start flying I understand completly.

The mods should be tossing out the attackers

[Sombeech]

So are you wanting us to tell you how to raise your kid? Or would you like an explanation on how God works?

I'm not sure which topic would be easier.

[RedMan]

This reminds me of the South Park cartoon where all the dead people are waiting to find out of they are getting into heaven.

They are told that only the Mormons are getting in an all the rest are going to hell for choosing the wrong religion. Its funny as hell.

Now ask yourself this. "When the diverse peoples of the world that are not members of my church arrive at the Heavens Gate will they be denied entry simply because they died wearing the wrong underwear, or didn't face mecca and pray enough or forgot to pay enough tithing or give offerings at the temple?"

I find it humorous that people believe that there is a God that will condemn your child to hell because YOU joined the wrong religion and the child simply followed the parents lead like 99% of all families operate.

Along the same lines your concern about God getting involved at the the Micro level of your life is based on a particular religious belief. Plenty of religions do not believe God operates this way. Of course there are those religions that the believe you need to be killed for your bad choice of church to attend.

Interestingly enough it seems all religions are convinced they are the only TRUE believers, the only ones that actually know what God wants them to do and how God wants them to live.

In the end you simply need to look inside. If it rings true to you, then its good. You have the ability to know what's right and what's religious BS.
If you really need someone else to do this for you then you need to spend some time thinking about what you really believe and learn to trust yourself.

[theking648]

i don't think praying to god to keep you safe will keep you safe. life is way to short to sit in church and listen to people tell you how you should live.

I'm going to do what i want, and have as much fun as possible before i die. hopefully i don't live to be 90 years old because i'll have to kill my self.

so if i fall when i'm in a canyon i cant blame it on god. it's my own dumbass fault... unless jacob pushed me.

[Sombeech]

He's not a Genie that grants wishes for crying out loud.

[rockgremlin]

So, you want someone to preach to you? You want religion do you?

[Sombeech]

I just wish God would show me more miracles if he really wanted me to believe he exists.





....and they've gotta be miracles that I'd like.




....preferably large amounts of money



....or hot sluts



....and they can't be proven to be coincidences on the internet.

[rockgremlin]

In all seriousness, I do believe He exists. I don't believe He intervenes. I agree that if he intervenes for one then he would have to intervene for us all (in the spirit of fair play). I have three kids. Why would I physically act to save the life of one but not the other? It defies all logic to think that way.

[hank moon]

In all seriousness, I do believe He exists. I don't believe He intervenes. I agree that if he intervenes for one then he would have to intervene for us all (in the spirit of fair play). I have three kids. Why would I physically act to save the life of one but not the other? It defies all logic to think that way.

"Intervention" - what could that be when God is all-knowing and (by some reckoning) has a plan for everyone? There can be no intervention. Everything that happens (or doesn't) is part of the plan.

Of course, there are many different "Gods" out there - 'bout as many as people, though believers and their views of God can be categorized. A Deist, for instance, would not generally accept divine intervention as part of reality, whereas a Pentecostal probably would. Any perceived intervention is obviously subject to human interpretation as He doesn't tend to leave "God was here" graffiti behind...

[cookiecutter]

In the end you simply need to look inside. If it rings true to you, then its good. You have the ability to know what's right and what's religious BS.
If you really need someone else to do this for you then you need to spend some time thinking about what you really believe and learn to trust yourself.

I'll agree with RedMan here. If you ask me, I'd tell you to be LDS...because it works for me. However, many of my good friends are not LDS and it works for them. All great people, many with different faiths, and we all hang out and have a good time. We pray before we hit up a canyon, snowmachine, camp, etc.. and whether they believe in it or not they participate out of respect. Likewise, when we climb to the top of a mountain and my buddy says, "this is my heaven, this is my church right here." I smile and say, I could get into a religion like this. For me, religion is a top priority just behind my family, but if religion gets in the way of treatin' others decently then its gone to far. Like RedMan, I doubt you'll find any sort of religion on an internet forum, so go out and experiment with what feels right to you. Make a choice, or not, and be cool with what everyone else chooses to believe in.