Zion trip comming up. Mystery plus ????

[cookiecutter]

We're headin down for our second trip to Zion (we can't seem to stay away now). The trip will take place in August and will be planned according to weather forecasts.

The idea is to head down for 4 days (1st day travel, 2nd and 3rd day canyons, 4th day travel) We will have 6 people coming with us, all comfortable with rappelling and 2 of us comfortable rigging anchors, rescue techniques etc (we're doing our best to teach the others and practice plenty of times before heading down).

We are going to do whatever it takes to get Mystery canyon, since we missed out on it every early morning last trip we're planning on an overnight wait at the window; we can sleep when we're dead.

Because of this we'd like a canyon for the 2nd day that we could pick up a permit right before heading out.

Any suggestions Bogleyfesters??

Keyhole, Pinecreek, Yankee Doodle (no permit) are all ideas. We'd like it to be a shorter canyon so we can recuperate from our all nighter at the window.

A trip report with lots and lots of pics is promised!

Jaden

[ratagonia]

We're headin down for our second trip to Zion (we can't seem to stay away now). The trip will take place in August and will be planned according to weather forecasts.

The idea is to head down for 4 days (1st day travel, 2nd and 3rd day canyons, 4th day travel) We will have 6 people coming with us, all comfortable with rappelling and 2 of us comfortable rigging anchors, rescue techniques etc (we're doing our best to teach the others and practice plenty of times before heading down).

We are going to do whatever it takes to get Mystery canyon, since we missed out on it every early morning last trip we're planning on an overnight wait at the window; we can sleep when we're dead.

Because of this we'd like a canyon for the 2nd day that we could pick up a permit right before heading out.

Any suggestions Bogleyfesters??

Keyhole, Pinecreek, Yankee Doodle (no permit) are all ideas. We'd like it to be a shorter canyon so we can recuperate from our all nighter at the window.

A trip report with lots and lots of pics is promised!

Jaden

Pine Creek (and Keyhole) sound perfect for you.

Tom

[moab mark]

We are going to do whatever it takes to get Mystery canyon, since we missed out on it every early morning last trip we're planning on an overnight wait at the window; we can sleep when we're dead.


Jaden

If you spend the whole night awake getting a permit and then do mystery you may be dead sooner then you think.

Im with Tom, Keyhole-Pincreek put wetsuit on at start of water of keyhole leave it on till the end of Pinecreek. Come out of Keyhole hop in the car and haul to the start of pinecreek before you boil over.
Best half day in Zion.

Mark

[Iceaxe]

I agree.... the Pine Creek/Keyhole platter is the best combo meal in Zion....

With the group skill level I'm hearing this combo platter will probably be a full day. Consider a nice lunch break between the two routes to give the noobs time to regroup.

[moab mark]

On a side question, why is Mystery so highly thought of? It is a fun canyon but with the shuttle headache or long hike in my personal opinion is it's not anymore spectacular then the rest? My group has done most all of the 3's in Zion and it is not even on the top 3 of our groups list. I would never spend much time trying to get a mystery permit. There are alot of other nice places to go with out the headache.

Just for fun If I had to list them.

1. Englestead Orderville, this was by far our groups opinion of the best one we have done. My wife loved it. In my opinion this canyon combo is a step above the other 3's in Zion for difficulty.
2. Keyhole-Pinecreek
3.Das Boots Subway
4 Behuniun-Mystery-Spry
I have not done echo?
You could not pay me enough to do Telephone again.

So Jaden just my opinion but there are alot of spectacular places to go if you cannot score a mystery.

Edit: no not beh-mys-spry in one day.

[Ryebrye]

On a side question, why is Mystery so highly thought of? It is a fun canyon but with the shuttle headache or long hike in my personal opinion is it's not anymore spectacular then the rest? My group has done most all of the 3's in Zion and it is not even on the top 3 of our groups list. I would never spend much time trying to get a mystery permit. There are alot of other nice places to go with out the headache.

Neither Mystery nor the Subway are as impressive enough to me to warrant the large crowds or the lottery system.

Is that big swimmer in Mystery back to normal yet, or is it still full of sand? Without that swimmer, I have an even harder time understanding why it is so popular. Mystery's last rap, however, is pretty fun. You get to be a celebrity for a few minutes and hear a bunch of people clapping for you sometimes - which you don't get in most other canyons.

Pine Creek / Keyhole are a good combo. Which to do first doesn't really matter - you can pick a criteria and decide (such as group size at pine creek, wanting to avoid boulder hopping in the sun, not wanting to change out of your wetsuits more often than you need to... etc).

[cookiecutter]

On a side question, why is Mystery so highly thought of? It is a fun canyon but with the shuttle headache or long hike in my personal opinion is it's not anymore spectacular then the rest? My group has done most all of the 3's in Zion and it is not even on the top 3 of our groups list. I would never spend much time trying to get a mystery permit. There are alot of other nice places to go with out the headache.

Our group has heard many raves about Mystery, so many that the majority of us are dead set on checking it off. I'm not too partial on what we do, as long as the group has fun and we stay safe I'm happy with just about anything, so for now Mystery is still in the cards (we'll see how I feel about it after not sleeping all night )

I REALLY like the idea of keyhole/pine creek. We have done them but not combined so it looks as though that will be the plan for now.
1st day: drive. 2nd day: keyhole/pine creek. 3rd day: Mystery. 4th day: drive. 5th day: post pics!

Thanks again for all the help, since our first trip you've all steered us in the right direction!

[nelsonccc]

On a side question, why is Mystery so highly thought of? It is a fun canyon but with the shuttle headache or long hike in my personal opinion is it's not anymore spectacular then the rest? My group has done most all of the 3's in Zion and it is not even on the top 3 of our groups list. I would never spend much time trying to get a mystery permit. There are alot of other nice places to go with out the headache.

Neither Mystery nor the Subway are as impressive enough to me to warrant the large crowds or the lottery system.

Is that big swimmer in Mystery back to normal yet, or is it still full of sand? Without that swimmer, I have an even harder time understanding why it is so popular. Mystery's last rap, however, is pretty fun. You get to be a celebrity for a few minutes and hear a bunch of people clapping for you sometimes - which you don't get in most other canyons.

Pine Creek / Keyhole are a good combo. Which to do first doesn't really matter - you can pick a criteria and decide (such as group size at pine creek, wanting to avoid boulder hopping in the sun, not wanting to change out of your wetsuits more often than you need to... etc).

Mystery, IMO, is way overrated. I've done it from the bottom as well as from the top. Too much work and not enough nice canyon. There are so many other/great options that are easier to get into and pack more bang for the buck.

[Iceaxe]

I like Mystery.... I don't know if I like it enough to get up before 6 am to get a permit. But if it's available I'll do it.

[moab mark]

On a side question, why is Mystery so highly thought of? It is a fun canyon but with the shuttle headache or long hike in my personal opinion is it's not anymore spectacular then the rest? My group has done most all of the 3's in Zion and it is not even on the top 3 of our groups list. I would never spend much time trying to get a mystery permit. There are alot of other nice places to go with out the headache.

Our group has heard many raves about Mystery, so many that the majority of us are dead set on checking it off. I'm not too partial on what we do, as long as the group has fun and we stay safe I'm happy with just about anything, so for now Mystery is still in the cards (we'll see how I feel about it after not sleeping all night )

I REALLY like the idea of keyhole/pine creek. We have done them but not combined so it looks as though that will be the plan for now.
1st day: drive. 2nd day: keyhole/pine creek. 3rd day: Mystery. 4th day: drive. 5th day: post pics!

Thanks again for all the help, since our first trip you've all steered us in the right direction!

If you do get a permit are you shuttling or hiking the trail from hell?

Mark

[cookiecutter]

If you do get a permit are you shuttling or hiking the trail from hell?

Mark

Everyone is wanting to save money. So I'm going to say we'll be hiking the trail. However, in Tom's book we read about the Ponderosa Ranch approach, is this a worth wile way?

[ratagonia]

If you do get a permit are you shuttling or hiking the trail from hell?

Mark

Everyone is wanting to save money. So I'm going to say we'll be hiking the trail. However, in Tom's book we read about the Ponderosa Ranch approach, is this a worth wile way?

That is called 'shuttling', whether you do it yourself or pay for a shuttle. The pain if you do it yourself is the 2 hours it takes to fetch the car. AND you have to have at least one car big enough for everyone, and two cars that can get up there, or close to it.

The hike is not bad, if you get an EARLY start.

Tom

[moab mark]

If you do get a permit are you shuttling or hiking the trail from hell?

Mark

Everyone is wanting to save money. So I'm going to say we'll be hiking the trail. However, in Tom's book we read about the Ponderosa Ranch approach, is this a worth wile way?

That is called 'shuttling', whether you do it yourself or pay for a shuttle. The pain if you do it yourself is the 2 hours it takes to fetch the car. AND you have to have at least one car big enough for everyone, and two cars that can get up there, or close to it.

The hike is not bad, if you get an EARLY start.

Tom

Did I just here Tom say the hike is not so bad. I recall a post on here recently about he only goes if a shuttle takes him.

The ponderosa start drops you basically at the top of the canyon. All down hill from there.
A shuttle will cost you about $40 a person if you do not have two cars. So no it's not cheap.
But hey I paid a guy 100 bucks to walk out to the start of Englestead and haul my rope back. So you probably guessed I would be paying for the shuttle.

Maybe Tom will tag along and show you where the hike is so you do not get lost.

Mark

[ratagonia]

Did I just here Tom say the hike is not so bad. I recall a post on here recently about he only goes if a shuttle takes him.

The ponderosa start drops you basically at the top of the canyon. All down hill from there.
A shuttle will cost you about $40 a person if you do not have two cars. So no it's not cheap.
But hey I paid a guy 100 bucks to walk out to the start of Englestead and haul my rope back. So you probably guessed I would be paying for the shuttle.

Maybe Tom will tag along and show you where the hike is so you do not get lost.

Mark

I AM the EMPEROR. I rarely travel without a retinue of eager shuttlers.

http://www.zionadventures.com says:

Trailhead Notes: Known mostly as the trailhead for the East Mesa Trail. We can only drive you in as far as the road allows, which may require an additional 2 mile hike from the Ponderosa Lodge, seasonally.
Schedule: Seasonally at 6:30am and 9:30am, arriving at your trailhead at 7:15am and 10:20am respectively.
Meeting Point: Zion Adventure Company on Lion Blvd.
Restrictions: Must bring NPS park pass and canyoneering permit with you.
Reservations: Required
Discounts: 10% for groups of 8+ paid together
Pricing/person: $29.00

Having Tom show you where the actual descent trail is: Priceless!

T

[cookiecutter]

But hey I paid a guy 100 bucks to walk out to the start of Englestead and haul my rope back. So you probably guessed I would be paying for the shuttle.

WHAT?? shoot dang, I'd haul you AND your rope wherever you wanted for $100.

[cookiecutter]

I AM the EMPEROR. I rarely travel without a retinue of eager shuttlers.

Hey now, who ever said we aren't eager shuttlers?? we just happen to be broke eager shuttles

so i guess you could just call us hikers

[Felicia]

I AM the EMPEROR. I rarely travel without a retinue of eager shuttlers.

Hey now, who ever said we aren't eager shuttlers?? we just happen to be broke eager shuttles

so i guess you could just call us hikers

Drive everyone up to the top, take the car back down to the valley and then only one person has to take the shuttle up to join the waiting group. Takes more time, but less money. Or leave the car up at the top and one person take the shuttle up the next morning to retrieve the car.

...or just hike and enjoy the park.

[moab mark]

But hey I paid a guy 100 bucks to walk out to the start of Englestead and haul my rope back. So you probably guessed I would be paying for the shuttle.

WHAT?? shoot dang, I'd haul you AND your rope wherever you wanted for $100.

You sound like the college kid we hired. But really it saved us money. We had 8 I mean 6 doing Englestead. $30 a head for the shuttle seemed a little pricey. So he drove out with us brought the rope back and took our truck back to town. Worth every dime.

Zion Adventure should add this option to the shuttle program.

But back to mystery. If you are staying up all night to get the permit and then hiking the east rim to get to the trail head your more ambitious then me. Just make sure you drop into the right canyon. Find some other college kid around town to drive you out and drop you off for $20.

Mark

[moab mark]

I AM the EMPEROR. I rarely travel without a retinue of eager shuttlers.

Hey now, who ever said we aren't eager shuttlers?? we just happen to be broke eager shuttles

so i guess you could just call us hikers

Drive everyone up to the top, take the car back down to the valley and then only one person has to take the shuttle up to join the waiting group. Takes more time, but less money. Or leave the car up at the top and one person take the shuttle up the next morning to retrieve the car.

...or just hike and enjoy the park.

I am not sure but I think you have to have at least 2 to get them to shuttle you?

[Felicia]

I am not sure but I think you have to have at least 2 to get them to shuttle you?

You might be right...