Zion Permit System

[moab mark]

Question, why on Subway and Mystery do they even have a walk up program. Why not just lottery them all off? I would imagine most of the people in the line are waiting for one of those permits?

In order to be fair to people coming form overseas, perhaps.

It seems like 'some' should be held for walkups, in order to increase the fairness of the system. Hard to construct a tight argument for it, but it seems like a good idea to me.

Tom

I could be wrong but I imagine most of the walk up crowd is for the subway permits? If this is the case maybe a simple solution would be to use one of the windows for subway and the other for all other permits?
Mark

Oh let me guess there is only one employee there in the morning?

[Iceaxe]

Oh let me guess there is only one employee there in the morning?

Good guess....

And the first person in line usually wants to look at pictures and discuss options of every route in the park. Followed by a complete discussion on every rule.... with the one ranger....

Most groups are pretty fast. But I have been behind groups that take 30 minutes or more before....

[Odie_Canyon]

Living in Hurricane I have stood in line many times to pick up permits for my group, who mostly come from Vegas.

I could be wrong but I imagine most of the walk up crowd is for the subway permits? If this is the case maybe a simple solution would be to use one of the windows for subway and the other for all other permits?
Mark

I am surprised how many "tourists" show up early in the morning to pickup permits for the Narrows and the West Rim. The first 4 groups in line are almost always for Subway and Mystery; which means someone is going back to bed...

Oh let me guess there is only one employee there in the morning?

Evey time I have gone early for permits there are two rangers. And knowing what I want, I am usually done and gone before the first group convinces the ranger of what they want.

[bruce from bryce]

Kiosks - what a great idea!

I mentioned this during the comment period for the Management Plan that now governs usage of canyons within the park. Apparently fell on deaf ears. I even provided an example of how at Mr Ranier they were using them to print out camping permits where rangers were not always present. Maybe our application would be a little bit more extensive but then again...

However, even with them in place there is no guarantee of success, for example.

At Bryce Canyon we had terminals at the lodge, visitor center, camp store and even out at Ruby's Inn that provided info the tourists could access to assist in planning their trips. So what failed? Software, electricity, hardware? None of these. Some damn tourists kept stealing the ball out of the mouses.

Keep addressing the problem and keep presenting alternates ways of doing business and maybe, just maybe the system will be changed or improved.

bruce from bryce
"retired but not inactive"

[sarahlizzy]

I am surprised how many "tourists" show up early in the morning to pickup permits for the Narrows and the West Rim. The first 4 groups in line are almost always for Subway and Mystery; which means someone is going back to bed...

Oh let me guess there is only one employee there in the morning?

Evey time I have gone early for permits there are two rangers. And knowing what I want, I am usually done and gone before the first group convinces the ranger of what they want.

There were two rangers this morning. Being the second in line, behind a Subway guy, I managed to get seen straight away. I managed to keep the conversation somewhat businesslike:

"Five for Mystery tomorrow please"
"Have you been here before?"
"Yes, but I've not done Mystery before"
...he finds me on the system and verifies my details.
"Have you checked the weather?"
"Yes, and I'll check it again before we leave"
"Do you have a route description?"
"Yes, I have beta and two 120 foot ropes and a 200 foot rope"
That answer seemed to instantly satisfy him, because his facial expression lit up and at that point he just printed out the permit sheet, I signed, and was on my way. The whole thing took about 2 minutes, which presumably pleased the next person in line.

From the conversations I overheard while waiting though, there were a lot of people there who didn't seem to know much about the canyon they wanted a permit for. Almost everyone was there for The Subway.

[sasteve49]

I'm a newbie to this forum, but we did Imlay three days ago. I walked in to the Permit office the day before and got the permit after a 15 minute wait. One thing they could do at the desk, is change the sign above which says "Backcountry Information" to Backcountry Permits only". Because every time I have been for a permit, there have been people in line in front of me simply seeking info about hikes that they could have gotten at the other info desk.By the way, Imlay was awesome, half full, with 3 hooks and one pack toss. 8-1/2 hours from Grotto into the Narrows with 4 people, starting on the right Sneak route.