Scenario - Flipped Upside Down

[ratagonia]

[
Here's my solution assuming he's not on a contingency anchor, conscious, and emotionally under control:

as a maker-up of scenarios, let me assure you that the victim is not emotionally under control, and is unable to assist in their rescue. If they could right themselves, they would have already done so.

So sorry. Try again.

Tom

[pup]

I don't mean to change direction (but I will slightly); is there an advantage to using the Munter/Mule over a figure eight block as a contingency anchor?

Thanks...

[ratagonia]

I don't mean to change direction (but I will slightly); is there an advantage to using the Munter/Mule over a figure eight block as a contingency anchor?

Thanks...

Once you learn it well, the Munter Mule is something you will always have with you. The Fig 8 Block requires carrying a Figure 8 of some kind, and having enough to use at all the anchors set up (if you have multiple anchors set up at any one time).

Just that. (with a presumption that carabiners are at hand).

T

[davehuth]

So, is there any nice safe trick for the last guy down after everyone else has rapped off the munter? Or is it simply last guy at risk which is all I know...

[ratagonia]

So, is there any nice safe trick for the last guy down after everyone else has rapped off the munter? Or is it simply last guy at risk which is all I know...

If you really need a contingency anchor for the final person, could do a bottom-anchor-contingency for the last guy, but this would require 3X rope. If you're that worried about it, a guided rappel might be called for, which requires about the same resources.

Tom

[trackrunner]

So, is there any nice safe trick for the last guy down after everyone else has rapped off the munter? Or is it simply last guy at risk which is all I know...

usually the last guy down will replace the contingency anchor with a biner block or rap double strand. if still need a contingency anchor you can follow tom's advice.

[nonot]

[
Here's my solution assuming he's not on a contingency anchor, conscious, and emotionally under control:

as a maker-up of scenarios, let me assure you that the victim is not emotionally under control, and is unable to assist in their rescue. If they could right themselves, they would have already done so.

So sorry. Try again.

Tom

So much for the easy way out.

If they are completely unable to assist then you have to go down and get them, cut and lower, or haul them up...with no extra rope cut and lower is not recommended (more like cut and...fall?) and I'll be damned if I'm going to slide down on the weighted rope on a couple of prussics.

So haul them up. Two prussic cords, a handful of biners, and extra webbing is enough to rig a 3 or 5 to 1. Ascenders stay in the bag since it's doubled. Since I carry a lot of extra webbing I'll probably also back up the anchor to a nearby BFR or BFT first it at all possible. Dang and who wanted to sweat and toil on a weekend...

[ratagonia]

as a maker-up of scenarios, let me assure you that the victim is not emotionally under control, and is unable to assist in their rescue. If they could right themselves, they would have already done so.

So sorry. Try again.

Tom

So much for the easy way out.

If they are completely unable to assist then you have to go down and get them, cut and lower, or haul them up...with no extra rope cut and lower is not recommended (more like cut and...fall?) and I'll be damned if I'm going to slide down on the weighted rope on a couple of prussics.

So haul them up. Two prussic cords, a handful of biners, and extra webbing is enough to rig a 3 or 5 to 1. Ascenders stay in the bag since it's doubled. Since I carry a lot of extra webbing I'll probably also back up the anchor to a nearby BFR or BFT first it at all possible. Dang and who wanted to sweat and toil on a weekend...

Now can I interest you in carrying a rescue rope? Or perhaps you'd like to changeover to rapping single strand?

Tom

[nonot]

The problem is that some people were taught to rap double strand and that's all they'll do. You throw one strand down and block it with a clove hitch and you tell them to rap on that. For some reason they immediately believe you to be a lunatic and flat out refuse.

It would be good to teach everyone to rap single strand initially, but it seems everyone learns double strand first because of the extra friction. In the canyon isn't the place to hold a clinic since time is limited.

I think the real lesson here is know thy partner and their abilities and come prepared. If bringing people unable to self rescue then yes, bringing an extra rope and rescue gear is a smart move.

[moab mark]

[
Here's my solution assuming he's not on a contingency anchor, conscious, and emotionally under control:

as a maker-up of scenarios, let me assure you that the victim is not emotionally under control, and is unable to assist in their rescue. If they could right themselves, they would have already done so.

So sorry. Try again.

Tom

So much for the easy way out.

If they are completely unable to assist then you have to go down and get them, cut and lower, or haul them up...with no extra rope cut and lower is not recommended (more like cut and...fall?) and I'll be damned if I'm going to slide down on the weighted rope on a couple of prussics.

So haul them up. Two prussic cords, a handful of biners, and extra webbing is enough to rig a 3 or 5 to 1. Ascenders stay in the bag since it's doubled. Since I carry a lot of extra webbing I'll probably also back up the anchor to a nearby BFR or BFT first it at all possible. Dang and who wanted to sweat and toil on a weekend...

Have never done it, has anyone descended a rope using mechanical ascenders to do a rescue? Or just to go down a loaded rope?
Mark

[ratagonia]

So much for the easy way out.

If they are completely unable to assist then you have to go down and get them, cut and lower, or haul them up...with no extra rope cut and lower is not recommended (more like cut and...fall?) and I'll be damned if I'm going to slide down on the weighted rope on a couple of prussics.

So haul them up. Two prussic cords, a handful of biners, and extra webbing is enough to rig a 3 or 5 to 1. Ascenders stay in the bag since it's doubled. Since I carry a lot of extra webbing I'll probably also back up the anchor to a nearby BFR or BFT first it at all possible. Dang and who wanted to sweat and toil on a weekend...

Have never done it, has anyone descended a rope using mechanical ascenders to do a rescue? Or just to go down a loaded rope?
Mark

One of our guides has done it, when he let his rescue rope get ahead of him, and one of the rappellers caught her hair in the Pirana.

Tom

[ratagonia]

The problem is that some people were taught to rap double strand and that's all they'll do. You throw one strand down and block it with a clove hitch and you tell them to rap on that. For some reason they immediately believe you to be a lunatic and flat out refuse.

It would be good to teach everyone to rap single strand initially, but it seems everyone learns double strand first because of the extra friction. In the canyon isn't the place to hold a clinic since time is limited.

I think the real lesson here is know thy partner and their abilities and come prepared. If bringing people unable to self rescue then yes, bringing an extra rope and rescue gear is a smart move.

Then carry a rescue rope.

Yes, it is difficult to teach old dogs new tricks. Look at the hold outs like BDC and BB!!!@$%#$%#!! Oh, and Shane. If you have insufficient gravitas to convert people to single rope rappels, then your obligation is to have a rescue rope, and stay at the back where it can be useful, AND train in how to use it.

T

[moab mark]

When you do Like Odno 7 and I did in moab and get your rope stuck. Kurt whipped out his rescue rope was able to tie it to the end of our rope that was only as long as the rappel and then change the pull angle enough we got the rope to break loose. When you can only walk a few feet away from the wall with your rope your options are limited. Without that additional rope it would of been a long day.

Since then I haul at least 40' extra with me.

Mark

[Iceaxe]

Yes, it is difficult to teach old dogs new tricks. Look at the hold outs like BDC and BB!!!@$%#$%#!! Oh, and Shane.

I always enjoy reading how if you are not doing it Tom's way you are doing it the wrong way....

.......there is more than one way to skin a cat....

[ratagonia]

Yes, it is difficult to teach old dogs new tricks. Look at the hold outs like BDC and BB!!!@$%#$%#!! Oh, and Shane.

I always enjoy reading how if you are not doing it Tom's way you are doing it the wrong way....

.......there is more than one way to skin a cat....

For those of you eating cat, I suggest getting Brian Cabe's book "So many cats..."






Never said you were doing it "wrong", friend Shane. But other people on this forum recognize that if their friends get in trouble on the rope, they would like to be in a position to do something about it.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

But other people on this forum recognize that if their friends get in trouble on the rope, they would like to be in a position to do something about it.

By do something about it..... I assume you mean in addition to laughing and taking pictures?!?!?



Because I'll be honest with ya.... if it's not life threatening that's the first thing I'm going to do if it's one of my friends, wife, kids....