Ham VS Spot

[DOSS]

Ok.. So I am contemplating getting either a Ham radio or a Spot Tracking device. I am leaning towards going with HAM but want yawls opinions.

I know that the HAM will be useless in Slot canyons but then again a SPoT could have the same problem (still line of sight to the Sat in the sky).

I like that with a HAM I can call home if need be and Say.. yep all is good. and I can look at the GPS in my hand and say.. yep I am Here. HAM has emergency frequency's too. HAM I get the license for cheap and don't have to pay monthly etc.. anyhow give me more pros and or cons etc..

[R]

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17365

[DOSS]

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17365

I know that the HAM will be useless in Slot canyons but then again a SPoT could have the same problem (still line of sight to the Sat in the sky).

[cilantro13]

+1

Question: When in Zion's for example, I see ranger's carrying around radios. I have always assumed they were HAM or shortwave of some sort. It seems that the same limitations would apply for those radios as with a handheld HAM radio.

Assume that you are just hiking (taking slots out of the equation), what kind of range will you get with a 5 watt portable? What is the availability of repeaters? Is there an emergency band that is monitored?

I am still trying to weigh pros and cons as to whether having a ham for backpacking, etc. is worth it.

[RedMan]

From experince I can tell you HAM will not have the coverage you think it will. Personally I think the SPOT is the best thing out there.

Its small, its cheap and it works.

[Don]

Ham is fun, when you have a big antenna and time to learn how to use it and time to network with others. If your looking for a new hobby Ham might be fun for you. However if your looking for communications support to supplement your hiking hobby then SPOT is what you want. Incidentally, SPOT is not the only brand of satellite communication available to the general public.

[DOSS]

From experince I can tell you HAM will not have the coverage you think it will. Personally I think the SPOT is the best thing out there.

Its small, its cheap and it works.

what kind of coverage do I think HAM will have? some specifics would be handy to make a good decision

My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...

[DOSS]

Ham is fun, when you have a big antenna and time to learn how to use it and time to network with others. If your looking for a new hobby Ham might be fun for you. However if your looking for communications support to supplement your hiking hobby then SPOT is what you want. Incidentally, SPOT is not the only brand of satellite communication available to the general public.

care to lend some specifics to this? why is HAM not what I want and SPOT is what I want.. what other communication devices are you referring to

[RedMan]

My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...

Hahaha, and if aliens blocked out the satellites then what?
What if a squirrel snuck into camp and hauled off your HAM?
They love HAM.

After spending 5 hours trying to raise somoen on the HAM while your friend is dying you will wish you had a SPOT. HAM is not that good.

All I can say is use your head, pay your bills, test things you need to work.

[IntrepidXJ]

get a satellite phone

[DOSS]

My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...

Hahaha, and if aliens blocked out the satellites then what?
What if a squirrel snuck into camp and hauled off your HAM?
They love HAM.

After spending 5 hours trying to raise somoen on the HAM while your friend is dying you will wish you had a SPOT. HAM is not that good.

All I can say is use your head, pay your bills, test things you need to work.

can't you read? stuff happens.. it is not like a cell phone that even without a plan can call 911.. what is something happened at the SPoT servers blah blah blah.. give me specifics not your general answers.. why is spot so much better.. don't just say that it is.. give me some proofs.. if you don't have any then shush :)

Interepid.. I have thought about a Sat phone but the price is out of my range right now..

[RedMan]

My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...

Hahaha, and if aliens blocked out the satellites then what?
What if a squirrel snuck into camp and hauled off your HAM?
They love HAM.

After spending 5 hours trying to raise somoen on the HAM while your friend is dying you will wish you had a SPOT. HAM is not that good.

All I can say is use your head, pay your bills, test things you need to work.

can't you read? stuff happens.. it is not like a cell phone that even without a plan can call 911.. what is something happened at the SPoT servers blah blah blah.. give me specifics not your general answers.. why is spot so much better.. don't just say that it is.. give me some proofs.. if you don't have any then shush :)

Interepid.. I have thought about a Sat phone but the price is out of my range right now..

Hmmm, never mind do what ever you want.

[jman]

To get what you want goes like this:

cheapest solution (and best solution) always tell someone the route you are taking including juctions, turnoffs, and how long. It's what Shane says all the time to prevent tragedies (just like with the case of Rose Backhaus) and I see this logic as the best communication possible. And it addition to this, you are carrying maps, a gps, and 2-way radio (like Talkabouts that go 15+ miles without requiring a license and has a method of scanning the frequencies)

cheaper solution (but requiring licensing) and having someone listen on the same frequency as you - have a HAM or CB radio. Pros: can reach long distances using radio freq., but then you need a homebase/receiver of someone listening to you 24/7, essentially. FCC permits are cheap too. But it may not be able to reach out deep in the canyons, maybe if you were in the North Wash area, but certainly not Zion or the Swell.


cheap solution: yr-to-yr agreement with Spot. We all know how it works. Approximately $100+ a yr to use this service. Plus you can send updates where family can track you via Google Earth. Cons: No talking to anyone, and have to rely on "that the signal went through, etc." But, they also provide helicopter rescue insurance.

not cheap solution: but a prepaid sat-phone service. Acts just like a phone, and you can either go with the year-to-year, month-to-month, or prepaid solution. Preferrably the prepaid solution is best. You spend $500 on the phone - it includes 300 minutes of airtime - and best of all, it has real-time communication (which is what TooeleCherokee wants). The 300 minutes are only good for a year, and when its done you can buy another 300minutes lasting another year for $200+.
(http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/glo...r/special.html)

[Alex]

Tooele, sounds like you are pretty set on HAM, just go with it then. No reason to argue the point. Most of us like SPOT, most of us use SPOT, and most of us will recommend SPOT. None of us (as far as I know) use HAM.

If you are that paranoid about losing a credit card, open another credit card, put that on SPOT and don't use it for charging purposes.

If you are that paranoid about rescue, carry a SPOT, HAM and sat phone, then you will be covered

Last week on a rafting trip with kids I brought my SPOT and also rented a sat phone for $65. It was worth the cost to me, because we had a lot of first timers on the trip and lots of kids. Do your own research and see what works best for you, no reason to argue "what if" scenarios. Most of the guys here are sold on Spot, it just works as it intends to work.

Just my .02

[DOSS]

Tooele, sounds like you are pretty set on HAM, just go with it then. No reason to argue the point. Most of us like SPOT, most of us use SPOT, and most of us will recommend SPOT. None of us (as far as I know) use HAM.

If you are that paranoid about losing a credit card, open another credit card, put that on SPOT and don't use it for charging purposes.

If you are that paranoid about rescue, carry a SPOT, HAM and sat phone, then you will be covered

Last week on a rafting trip with kids I brought my SPOT and also rented a sat phone for $65. It was worth the cost to me, because we had a lot of first timers on the trip and lots of kids. Do your own research and see what works best for you, no reason to argue "what if" scenarios. Most of the guys here are sold on Spot, it just works as it intends to work.

Just my .02

I am not trying to argue my point.. I am trying to get people to give some specifics as to why or why not.. but all people are giving is generalities. I know a lot of you like SPoT.. I would like someone to give some SPECIFICS as to why the SPoT is actually better.. Proofs.. actual personal experiance.. Hell even if it is just weight difference for you that is fine but specifics...

cheapest solution (and best solution) always tell someone the route you are taking including juctions, turnoffs, and how long. It's what Shane says all the time to prevent tragedies (just like with the case of Rose Backhaus) and I see this logic as the best communication possible. And it addition to this, you are carrying maps, a gps, and 2-way radio (like Talkabouts that go 15+ miles without requiring a license and has a method of scanning the frequencies)

Did I ask anything about talk about radios? Didn't I already Say that a Sat phone is NOT an option? did I ask about maps and telling people where I am going ? Are you freaking stupid? are you unable to read? I asked about specifics between SPOT and HAM.. if you cann't answer that shut your yap and move on

[Alex]

First of all stop being an ass You come here to get some feedback and tell everyone to shush, not cool

Second, as I said before, we can't compare SPOT to HAM, since not many members here use HAM to compare it to SPOT.

What I can help you with is give you some statistics on my 2.5 years of SPOT use and then you can go to hamsRus.com website (or whatever) and get some statistics on HAM use and then do your own comparison.

Why I use spot:

- Cheap. $150 initial purchase, $100/year subscription fee
- Light weight. 7.25 ounces
- Waterproof. I can use it on my raft and/or swimming slot canyons
- Tracking, for extra fee you can have a continues tracking through Google Maps or spot website
- Check in option. Send pre-made messages (2 forms) to 2 different (or same) contact list of phone numbers and emails. One option is called HELP, but all it is is just a different pre-made message routed to a different contact list
- S&R option. A 911 signal will be routed to a local county Sheriff's Office to be treated as a real S&R call.
- SENT acknowledgment. The SPOT actually tells you if your signal went through or not. Even though it might take up to 15 minutes to send a signal.
- Road assistance. Now SPOT offers road assistance ANYWHERE. Not just within cell coverage. Very important if you blow a tire in the middle of Uintas.
- Facebook plugin. My friends on Facebook can see where I am on the map when I am using it.
- Easy to use. Turn it on, push a button, walk away. Done deal, even a person from Tooele can use it
- Most of all, I know that my family knows I am OK without me doing much of anything. My family will also know that I need help when I get stranded. My family is my best rescue, someone who cares about me and someone who will come to my rescue no matter what. Not some fat dude on a HAM radio, who can careless about my distress call.
- If you need more information on SPOT, please do your own research here: http://findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=1700


Hope this helps.

[DOSS]

First of all stop being an ass You come here to get some feedback and tell everyone to shush, not cool

Second, as I said before, we can't compare SPOT to HAM, since not many members here use HAM to compare it to SPOT.

What I can help you with is give you some statistics on my 2.5 years of SPOT use and then you can go to hamsRus.com website (or whatever) and get some statistics on HAM use and then do your own comparison.

Why I use spot:

- Cheap. $150 initial purchase, $100/year subscription fee
- Light weight. 7.25 ounces
- Waterproof. I can use it on my raft and/or swimming slot canyons
- Tracking, for extra fee you can have a continues tracking through Google Maps or spot website
- Check in option. Send pre-made messages (2 forms) to 2 different (or same) contact list of phone numbers and emails. One option is called HELP, but all it is is just a different pre-made message routed to a different contact list
- S&R option. A 911 signal will be routed to a local county Sheriff's Office to be treated as a real S&R call.
- SENT acknowledgment. The SPOT actually tells you if your signal went through or not. Even though it might take up to 15 minutes to send a signal.
- Road assistance. Now SPOT offers road assistance ANYWHERE. Not just within cell coverage. Very important if you blow a tire in the middle of Uintas.
- Facebook plugin. My friends on Facebook can see where I am on the map when I am using it.
- Easy to use. Turn it on, push a button, walk away. Done deal, even a person from Tooele can use it
- Most of all, I know that my family knows I am OK without me doing much of anything. My family will also know that I need help when I get stranded. My family is my best rescue, someone who cares about me and someone who will come to my rescue no matter what. Not some fat dude on a HAM radio, who can careless about my distress call.
- If you need more information on SPOT, please do your own research here: http://findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=1700


Hope this helps.

I am an Ass.. I agree.. I just hate it when people spew generalities and are unable to answer a question..

You said that people are unable to compare the two as they have no experience.. if that is the case then they should let someone else who does have actual information answer instead of running their yap :)

I do appreciate your personal experience with spot.. That is specific information and on target with the question at hand.. Ya I know.. I am Blunt hu :)

I have read through spots FAQ previously as well as other research just trying to get more :).. thanks

[Alex]

You get much more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Just a thought....

[DOSS]

You get much more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Just a thought....

but the vinegar keeps the pesky ants away :)

[cilantro13]

Thanks for the info everybody. I think the take home for me is that HAM isn't going to be that useful as a safety device. Also, I didn't think people took SPoT that seriously. I was wrong. I am going to look into that both for canyons and the long mountain bike treks.

Now, as a fiddle around when you are having lunch device... that is a different story.