DELETED

[coinslab]

DELETED

[Don]

Wow, cool. Keep us informed when you get the carbon dating.

[Win]

What a great find and thanks for not putting it on a shelf at home.

Win

[trackrunner]

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing

Thanks for keeping this for future generations. Amazing that it lasted this long so close to a road. Thanks to who ever placed the rocks hiding this for furture generations.

[denaliguide]

nice find. you were very fortunate to locate such a unique piece. unfortunately, no one else will be able to feel the excitement of finding it, now that it's been removed.

if you look at my avater you will see a pot. its location has been known for over 20 years. it has not been removed to a museum. much to the consternation of the local blm. i was able to locate it a few years ago. the joy of findiing it "in situ" was so much better than seeing it in a glass case at the "edge of the cedars" museum. now everything i find i leave in place. i would have just put the rocks back.

read a book called "in search of the old ones" by david roberts. this link will lead to the prologue. it mentions the pot. the book mentions an idea called the "museum of the outdoors". you will have to read it to see what i am talking about.

http://books.google.com/books?id=r5x...num=5#PPA20,M1

[oldno7]

nice find. you were very fortunate to locate such a unique piece. unfortunately, no one else will be able to feel the excitement of finding it, now that it's been removed.

if you look at my avater you will see a pot. its location has been known for over 20 years. it has not been removed to a museum. much to the consternation of the local blm. i was able to locate it a few years ago. the joy of findiing it "in situ" was so much better than seeing it in a glass case at the "edge of the cedars" museum. now everything i find i leave in place. i would have just put the rocks back.

read a book called "in search of the old ones" by david roberts. this link will lead to the prologue. it mentions the pot. the book mentions an idea called the "museum of the outdoors". you will have to read it to see what i am talking about.

http://books.google.com/books?id=r5x...num=5#PPA20,M1

I agree with Les whole heartidly. This mess started with the Wetherills, McLoyd,Graham and others, continues in the name of science. I don't want to go to New York to see documentation of Cedar Mesa, or SLC to see Freemont documentation. It can never be as it was, once it was removed.

[trackrunner]

I see where you are coming denaliguide. Also see where coinslab is coming from. I would love to come upon a find like this. But I would be torn on putting the rock back hiding it or letting the archeologist know. Would love to leave it there, but would kill my self finding out later that someone stole it instead of it being preserved. So many factors, remote location that nobady knows about or you told me about sure I'd leave it for sure. In an area where a lot of other stuff has been vandalized & destroyed close by I may tell.

I so hope that it is one where it can be an outdoor musem for a long time. If it was I sure wouldn't be telling everyone where it was located (only a trusted few).

Agree with you and Kurt. Seeing the antient cultures in the outdoors are better than a meseum in a large urban city.

[Deathcricket]

Oh man, what an amazing find! Also interesting discussion. I think being so close to the interstate and just how amazing it is, you did the right thing sending it off to a museum. That way thousands will enjoy it vs a chosen few who would be lucky enough to stumble upon it. Plus the risk that the next person won't just put it in a private collection or destroy it. As the person who discovered it, I think it's your choice. If I stumbled upon something amazing and random, I probably would have done the same thing. Also what about bugs eating it, rot, fire, rats, etc. To lose something so delicate and precious to natural causes. *sigh*

I do have to wonder though.. Do you think someone found it before you and hid it again, or do you think the original "stasher" was the owner? How did it feel around the site? The rocks around it don't look to buried.

[trackrunner]

I do have to wonder though.. Do you think someone found it before you and hid it again, or do you think the original "stasher" was the owner? How did it feel around the site? The rocks around it don't look to buried.

I think someone else found it and delicately placed the rocks around it.

Talking to archeoligist they told me when the natives abandoned these dwellings they usually left everything as is. Of course with many thousands of dwellings there are many ways to leave the contents.

[Iceaxe]

nice find. you were very fortunate to locate such a unique piece. unfortunately, no one else will be able to feel the excitement of finding it, now that it's been removed.

A agree with Denaliguide.... I've always considered this museum bullcrap to be nothing more than institutionalized vandalism.

I've found some pretty awesome things.... including a dinosaur that appears to be pretty much intact.... and I have always left them where I found them.

YMMV

[asdf]

What a great find.

I agree with Ice on about the institutionalized vandalism but I can also see some yokel using these for target practice. Who here has not seen vandalized rock art before?

I guess its really a lose lose situation.

I've found some pretty awesome things.... including a dinosaur that appears to be pretty much intact....

Feel free to post the GPS info for this ...

[Iceaxe]

Feel free to post the GPS info for this ...

It's located along a popular canyoneering approach route in the Swell... I'm sure many others have seen it and just didn't know what they were looking at.

I found it about 2000, I did call the BLM to inquire and ask some questions.... they really didn't seem to have any interest. They told me "Yeah, there are a lot of dino bones out in the Swell but we don't have the time, money or resources to check them all out and protect them all". After they found out they had to hike up the side of a mountain to visit the site and could go there on ATV's they really lost interest.

Dino stuff is kind of a personal thing to me. I (along with rockgremlin and Alex) also found some dino tracks in Leprechaun Canyon that myself and thousands of other canyoneers had walked over for years. Those are GPSed on Climb-Utah.com ;-)

[trackrunner]

What a great find.

I agree with Ice on about the institutionalized vandalism but I can also see some yokel using these for target practice. Who here has not seen vandalized rock art before?

I guess its really a lose lose situation.

Kind of my feeling too.

I've found some pretty awesome things.... including a dinosaur that appears to be pretty much intact....

So did you place these up in the COF or as a freebie. I'd think this is different then beta for a canyon that some noob comes through and places some bad bolts.

I like that Utah is a right to carry state. Some day a vandal will get shot.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: Here is info and pictures of the Dino Trackway

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3154

The dino bones is one of those things I keep to myself because they will be stolen if I located them on the web.

[Scott P]

Dino bones are fairly common (but finding a complete) skeleton is extremely rare. Tracks are common too.

I've seen/found bones all over the place including, the Swell, Colorado National Monument, McInnis Canyons, Moab, Dirty Devil, etc, etc. The only reason I didn't notice them earlier was because before I started hiking the interpretive trails I wouldn't recognize what I was looking at.

If you want to see them in a natural setting on the CP, there are many places to do so without worrying about secrecy. Just some examples are Rabbit Valley, Dinosaur Hill and Mill Canyon, but there are more than that.

Dinosaur tracks are also all over the place on the CP. I've seen then east of Dinosaur NM (strangely I've never seen them in the monument), McInnis Canyons, Moab, Horseshoe Canyon, St. George area, Subway, Marble Canyon, etc.

Places like western Utah and the Book Cliffs have huge fossils in some area all over the place. same with the areas around Dinosaur National Monument and east along the Yampa River Valley . One mountain by my house is almost entirely made of fossils.

Anyway, about the basket, nice find. I've never found a whole pot, but have found up to half of pots (the Anasazi smashed them when leaving a dwelling), arrowheads, knives, baskets, etc. I've always left them in place, but given that this one is close to a road, I don't think there was anything wrong with what you did. I'm glad that it just didn't end up in someone's house.

[goofball]

very cool. it is very exciting to find relics in situ, especially larger, well preserved items that saw everyday use like vessels. we saw a nice pot once. we were looking for les' pot, but saw this one instead. copletely intact but for the bottom. contacted the blm but i was unsure of its exact locatioin and they did not find it. may still be out there i guess.

[denaliguide]

very cool. it is very exciting to find relics in situ, especially larger, well preserved items that saw everyday use like vessels. we saw a nice pot once. we were looking for les' pot, but saw this one instead. copletely intact but for the bottom. contacted the blm but i was unsure of its exact locatioin and they did not find it. may still be out there i guess.

that's a nice pot too. just knowing that there are things out there like this to try and find keeps me coming back year after year. the thrill of the hunt.

Also what about bugs eating it, rot, fire, rats, etc. To lose something so delicate and precious to natural causes. *sigh*

my guess since it's already been there between 700 and maybe 1000 years that fire is the only real natural cause that could harm it.

another good book that i recommend is called "cowboys and cave dwellers" it documents the search for antiquities removed by the wetherhills, graham, mclloyd and others from the cedar mesa area. trying to establish provenience for collections at various museums across the country. a reverse archealogy. very interesting reading on how much difficulty there is in getting access to collections that some museums have. also i found interesting how much is just gathering dust in basements and hasn't ever been catalogued.

[Iceaxe]

The only reason I didn't notice them earlier was because before I started hiking the interpretive trails I wouldn't recognize what I was looking at.

Hiking the interpretive trails is how I also learned what to look for.

used to be a good one just north of Moab, in Mill Creek I believe.

.

[coinslab]

As quoted from state archeologist Kevin Jones "the Fremont placed rocks around this to prevent other tribes from finding this" So it HAS NOT been found by anyone. Here's my reasoning for telling the archeologist.
#1 there is a coal mining road 30 feet from where this was found.
#2 What if it was a missing link to how they dissapeared it would be lost forever if some idiot happened to steal it. I know the locals are cursing me for not taking and selling it on ebay. They are pretty dumb if you haven't noticed. So I did NOT want it in the wrong hands.

[Iceaxe]

coinslab no one is picking on you for turning the pot over to the proper people.... I think everyone is just a little sad that items like that can't be left around for others to find and enjoy.

It was a nice find.... you should be proud of it. I hope you took lots of pictures to remember