Bad Bolts in Rock of Ages

[Iceaxe]

I

[oldno7]

Thanks for the heads up.

[DWayne27]

Is this at the final rappel? The old pitons that were already there that were somewhat questionable, or are their new questionable bolts?

[moab mark]

Devin,

Some one has placed bolts on the wall by where you rappeled off of that cedar tree. Someone also took the webbing I had placed around the cedar tree at the big arch and re rigged it and then placed a bolt under the tree to tie into the webbing. Kurt has a picture, maybe he can post it. This has all happened in the last 10 days. I would post some pictures but someone left his camera in the console of his jeep in moab.



Mark

[oldno7]

Might want to add that there is a plethora of poison Ivy on the lower trail sections, some un-avoidable.

[oldno7]

Heres the new bolt's and Mark and I fixed the last rappel anchor so you don't need to rappel off of a single piton loaded in tension.

[Iceaxe]

A couple of thoughts....

On the whole I'm extremely happy with how the canyoneering community is handling the bolting vs natural anchor issue on the Colorado Plateau. 10 years ago everything was getting bolted, and usually very poorly. The canyons were becoming a major mess with bolt gardens springing up at every drop. Anyone who canyoneer in the "good old days" will tell you things are 100 times better now than they were 10 years ago.

The gray breads have done a great job of educating those entering the sport as to when it is appropriate to place bolts. Those following the gray breads have done a great job in teaching noob's as to when bolts are appropriate. The canyoneering community has done a great job of policing its self.

Unfortunately some people will never get the message. The best we can do as a community is to keep educating and remove unsafe or inappropriate bolts.

Education is the key!

[moab mark]

On the picture of the big cedar tree. When I first did that rappel there was not any webbing on the tree. There were several rope grooves around the tree. You can see where the bark had been beaten up. Where the bark is beat up I wrapped 2 pulled 1 and put an overhand in the end. Seemed good to Us. I assume they moved it up the tree to get a better pull? But when you look at the tree it could possibly split the branch off. I assume this is why they added the bolt as a back up. The bolt is connected to the rapide with 6 mm cord.

For education purposes does anyone have a positive reason why someone would place a bolt right under a tree of that size?

On the new bolts. I asume whoever placed them did not climb over the rock pile and see the cedar tree? But regardless they are placed about 8 ft or so off of the ground. Drilling them by hand or cordless drill would of been hard. They placed them so that you are trying to pull them out of the wall on rappel. They could of gone up about 4 more ft and placed them on the top of that wall. It is easy to get on top.

So like the last one any reason why someone would place them there. Also why the long webbing?

Mark

[trackrunner]

For education purposes does anyone have a positive reason why someone would place a bolt right under a tree of that size?

No

[Iceaxe]

No

Yeah.... that one had me scratching my head.... but, I see a lot of really bizzare bolts in Moab. Reminds my a lot of Zion before the canyoneers started to police themselves and the routes they used.

Moab gets a lot of gym climbers and top ropers.... they just don't know any better. They finally get a day out to play adult on some real rock and don't know how to act.

[Iceaxe]

From Scott P....

And.... if anyone else is having trouble logging in clean your cookies. If you need help Acca posted a thread at the top of the General Section.

I don't know if it related (sounds like it could be, but a bunch of poorly placed bolts are popping up in the Swell and Roost as well. They aren't high quality and appear to be bought from a cheap hardware store. The ones we found in the Swell were loose and I noticed that the washers used were bent over. I geve the chain a good yank and pulled it out with my bare hands. It appears by looking at some Bogely photos on a TR that the same group replaced the crappy bolts with more crappy ones. Anyway, could one or just a few groups doing this.

.

[Scott P]

Thanks Shane.

Anyway, in my post below and the chain I pulled out with my bare hands was in Baptist in May 2008.

From French's TR, it looks like they have been replaced in the same manner/materials (there were two last year):

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17001



Anyway, judging from what I saw last year, I would test them before using them. As mentioned I pulled the chain off one of them with my bare hands.

[ratagonia]

Thanks Shane.

Anyway, in my post below and the chain I pulled out with my bare hands was in Baptist in May 2008.

From French's TR, it looks like they have been replaced in the same manner/materials (there were two last year):



Anyway, judging from what I saw last year, I would test them before using them. As mentioned I pulled the chain off one of them with my bare hands.

What canyon is this "lovely" (NOT) anchor from???

Tom

[Iceaxe]

What canyon is this "lovely" (NOT) anchor from???

If I understand things correctly.... that abortion posing as an anchor is the final rappel out of Baptist Draw and into Chute Canyon.

Looks like we have anther Noob or group of noobs intent on "improving" several classic routes.

[oldno7]

What canyon is this "lovely" (NOT) anchor from???

If I understand things correctly.... that abortion posing as an anchor is the final rappel out of Baptist Draw and into Chute Canyon.

Looks like we have anther Noob or group of noobs intent on "improving" several classic routes.

I feel safer just looking at it..............

[Iceaxe]

I feel safer just looking at it..............

I think we need to add more webbing.... and knots.... lets tie lots more knots....

[Scott P]

What canyon is this "lovely" (NOT) anchor from???

If I understand things correctly.... that abortion posing as an anchor is the final rappel out of Baptist Draw and into Chute Canyon.

Correct.

For those interested, here was my original post to the Canyons Group on the situtation (slightly edited):

The only bolts I've "chopped" were done so with my bare hands. Some groups is putting extremely bad and poorly placed bolts in the swell. The latest ones I pulled the washers out with my bare hands with a gentle tug. These were in upper Chute Canyon (actually Baptist near the Chute Junction). Since I didn't have a wrench I didn't remove the entire dangerous bolt, but hope someone did (I posted on the canyons group). Same group (?) is putting the same bolts in other canyons in the Swell as well. Similar ones were found in the Black Box and a few other canyons. They are just hardware "bolts" with no hangars and they only use washers.

[Iceaxe]

I have been told (by Ram) the bolts at the last rappel in Rock of Ages have been reworked.... If I understand things correctly.... the bolts under the ledge have been removed and you must now use the scary "lean too" bolts on the platform just below the rim.

[Brian in SLC]

On There were several rope grooves around the tree. You can see where the bark had been beaten up. Where the bark is beat up I wrapped 2 pulled 1 and put an overhand in the end....
For education purposes does anyone have a positive reason why someone would place a bolt right under a tree of that size?

Well, one reason is kinda contained in your prior comment about that tree: the bark is beat up. Sooner or later, that tree will die. Folks place bolts (right or wrong), to save trees from dying. Top side cliff ecology is a study unto its own, but, in several locations in Illinois, for example, they've banned climbing altogether because the cliff top trees (etc) are dying (etc). Had their been reasonable fixed anchors to use instead of folks using and killing the trees, there would be a fair chance folks could still climb at those locations.

I guess I wonder if folks think these big mature trees are expendable or not, with regard to anchoring. I guess once they die, they'll fall over and leave a really big hole where you could bury a pack or something (ha ha).

Curious about this photo:



Confusing, but, which side do you rappel on? Shouldn't the block and the knot be on the same side of the rapide/ring? Just looks strange to me.

I hate washer stacks. Don't mind chain, but, I hate washer stacks. Hangers are so cheap (what, 2 bucks?). Ugly looking examples of poorly done anchors. Whoever did that should be embarrassed.

Brian in SLC
(not bolt averse, but, man them are fugly anchors)

[ratagonia]

Curious about this photo:



Confusing, but, which side do you rappel on? Shouldn't the block and the knot be on the same side of the rapide/ring? Just looks strange to me.

Brian in SLC
(not bolt averse, but, man them are fugly anchors)

This is set up as a contingency anchor, using two ropes of 1X length. For example, a 100 foot rappel using two 120 foot ropes. The contingency is set up above the knot, so a full length of rope is available for lowering. The final rappeller would re-set the rope to allow pulling.

Tom