Yankee Doodle Hollow -3/16/2009

[nieder]

On Monday March 16, 2009 I took my second trip down Yankee Doodle, my first having been in the dead of summer with my regular climbing/canyoneering partner Chris- niether of us having done the canyon before. However, this time, I was a bit nervous because I was leading 5 inexperienced guys down with me and a semi-experienced friend, and was certain that we would encounter some water (in June it was bone dry).

I was right, there was water, not too much, and not too cold, but almost every significant hole had at least waist deep water to wade through.
Overall it was a great hike, and everyone loved it- they did pretty well for being newbies.

Car to car was just about 3 hours because of some bottlenecks at the boulder downclimbs. (My first trip the two of us did the whole thing in about half the time.) I would recommend it to anyone with at least some hiking experience, but you for sure want to have someone with you who knows the ins and outs of setting up the initial rappel and have good knowledge of downclimbing and route finding.

[Iceaxe]

Nice pics.

[oldno7]

Excellent, I've been through there a lot and you managed to make it look inviting. Always a nice canyon.

[Deathcricket]

Great pics man, thanks for sharing. That one pic "it's not worth it" is hilarious since it's exactly what I do. Pretty much go as long as I can without getting wet. It's like a game my friends play. "last one still dry is the winner". Good to know I'm not the only one. HAHA.

[accadacca]

Your pix are excellent. This route looks like a blast! I need to hit this one.

[cp0915]

Nice pics and TR. A little dismayed to hear there's now a bolt behind that slab/fin above the pothole.

[nieder]

Yeah there were actually two hangers, I think they both had glue covering the bolts. I thought they seemed a little superfluous-

I was kind of glad when I saw them though because I am not sure everyone in my group could have pulled the move without the anchor.

But, now I think about it- there is nothing about that pothole/fin that necessitated a bolt- a body belay or the first person up just standing there holding a rope/piece of webbing would be enough.

[taatmk]

Yeah there were actually two hangers, I think they both had glue covering the bolts. I thought they seemed a little superfluous-



Did this route this same time, only last year. I did not think that the spot you are describing required bolts. I am a 50 year old geezer and was able to make it over ok. Out-reached hand assistance required as needed for some.

[Iceaxe]

Bolts in Yankee Doodle?!?!?

***kicks a rock as he slowly walks away muttering something about dumbass***


.

[oldno7]

Bolts in Yankee Doodle?!?!?

***kicks a rock as he slowly walks away muttering something about dumbass***


.

Ditto--
They have been pulled several times.
There is a guide service out of St. George that seems suspect.
At one time there was around 13 total

[nieder]

I think I have a pretty good idea on who might have placed the bolts *cough*Todd Goss*cough*

[accadacca]

BOLTS!! Them are fightin' words...

[Don]

I know there was 1 in there last June when Josh and I went through. I remember thinking then that it seemed unnecessary. Too bad.

[trackrunner]

Nice TR

Love this canyon.

I remember thinking then that it seemed unnecessary. Too bad.

I agree. no need for bolts in this canyon. I think someone else described it best. Bolts at the downclimbs in Yankee Doudle is like bolting your front poarch, there is no need to.



Edit: there are three sets of bolts. first set is under a rock to get down into the canyon for the first 10 to 15 ft drop. Second set is for the main 80 ft drop. Natural anchors can be used for the first two drops and even combine both. Third set is found trying to bypass the pothole in the pic posted above.

[Iceaxe]

These bolts should be pulled.... keep pulling them and pretty soon whomever is placing them will eventually get the hint.

I mean really.... The training wheels have to come off sometime....

[nieder]

I agree with the words above, I see no point for any bolts in there-
However from a guiding perspective (most likely the ones who keep placing them, and I am not a guide) - the bolts mean speed and "safety".

If a guiding service can shave an hour off of helping spa people get down some tricky potholes by rappeling instead of downclimbing, and making it safer to quickly take those people down the closest canyon to St. George that isnt in a national park- all the while making more money per hour- they are going to keep their drills running as long as the people are paying.

My opinion is that if they are there, leave them, or it will just get uglier as bolts are chopped and new holes are drilled. Bolt wars are retarded.

You have to ask yourself- would continually ripping out the anchors as new ones are placed be less of an impact than just leaving the original ones?

There are some really good points to be read at this page on Tom's:

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/intro/ethics.php

[Iceaxe]

Actually.... continuing to remove unnecessary bolts works wonders in stopping the spread of nuisance bolts. And if a good job is done you will never know the drop was once bolted. The problem with bolts like the ones in Yankee Doodle is they bread other nuisance bolts. Bolts have a place

[oldno7]

I have another really good, but short canyon in the Leeds area. Takes more skill than Yankee due to possible keeper pothole and natural anchor skills.
Longest rap is 165'. If the masses show up it will surely be bolted. Right now this was the anchor for the big rap(2nd and 3rd pics). Also the keeper(first photo), could get more fun when the water goes down.

[Iceaxe]

WOW! Nice looking canyon..... Does it have a name yet?

One method I have learned works wonders for stopping bolts if the anchor is tricky. Take the time to find a good anchor and make sure to include a detailed description of how to anchor the tricky drop in any beta you distribute. That normally solves the problem.

[oldno7]

No name as of yet.
I won't be distributing beta, not my job.
Should be some beta pusher out there willing to make a trade.