knots for webbing

[Stick]

I haven't had any formal training about what kind of knots to use with webbing, I've learned what I could pick up from other people. But I was wondering what kind of knots can be safely used with webbing? When I search on google about the only thing I can find is the water knot for making a loop out of a piece of webbing.

When I have tied webbing for anchors, the anchors have been close to the drop-off that a loop (around a tree, big rock, chockstone, or through bolts and hangers - I did not tie and american death triangle) has been easy enough without using too much webbing.

But if the anchor is 30 feet from the drop-off I wouldn't want to tie a 60 foot loop. What kind of knot could I use with webbing to tie a loop around a tree or boulder, and then have just one strand to reach the remaining 30 feet to the drop-off? The people that I learned knots from taught me not to use anything but a water knot when tying webbing. But I think I have seen different knots used in webbing for the above situation, like at the anchor for the second rappel in alcatraz. It's been several years since I went down alcatraz, but I don't think that anchor has a water knot around the chockstone. Would a bowline work?

[denaliguide]

i think i would still use the water knot. around the tree or boulder you just chase it back through. this gives you a loop around the anchor. and the a water knot on a bight on the end of the webbing 30 feet away. just keep in mind that once the water knot has been weighted its a bugger to untie.

[Jaxx]

Denali has a good point. You could also just tie the huge loop so that you can retrieve it.

I was going to explain how to do it but decided making a drawing that looks like a 5 yr old made it would be better. Of course the rappel rope and rapids would be pulled together. Only double rap on this setup. It still uses alot of webbing but atleast you get it back by pulling the rappel rope out and then just use the pull cord to bring the webbing down. Watch your head for falling rapides.

[hank moon]

To use a single strand for an anchor:

- tie an overhand on a bight in each end of the webbing, forming loops at the ends.
- using the loops, girth hitch the webbing around the anchor
- use the free loop to thread your rope (normally with a rapide)
- be *very* careful as a single-strand anchor is especially vulnerable to cutting and abrasion

[Stick]

Thanks guys.

Hank, it did cross my mind earlier to try what you suggested, and it seems to be straight forward.

[ratagonia]

Denali has a good point. You could also just tie the huge loop so that you can retrieve it.

I was going to explain how to do it but decided making a drawing that looks like a 5 yr old made it would be better. Of course the rappel rope and rapids would be pulled together. Only double rap on this setup. It still uses alot of webbing but atleast you get it back by pulling the rappel rope out and then just use the pull cord to bring the webbing down. Watch your head for falling rapides.

Here's a photo of the same... or very similar. Rings tied into each end with an overhand on a bight. Retrieval cord tied onto a separate loop (for clarity, and to keep it out of the way of the main rope).

But, the retrievable only works when the rap is clean, and the rope puller can be assured that that sling with rings on both ends will not catch on anything on the way down.

Tom

[MSchasch]

Denali has a good point. You could also just tie the huge loop so that you can retrieve it.

I was going to explain how to do it but decided making a drawing that looks like a 5 yr old made it would be better. Of course the rappel rope and rapids would be pulled together. Only double rap on this setup. It still uses alot of webbing but atleast you get it back by pulling the rappel rope out and then just use the pull cord to bring the webbing down. Watch your head for falling rapides.

I've used this method a few times, one thing I noticed about the drawing:

When the pull cord and rope are passing close to or through the same ring it creates some nasty friction while pulling the rope down. Like rope on rope cutting friction. Better to tie the pull cord separate and away from the rings, like in Tom's photo.

At least from my experience

[Jaxx]

Good point. Thanks for the tip

[Iceaxe]

Better to tie the pull cord separate and away from the rings, like in Tom's photo.

I'll "Roger that".

[canyonguru]

best freakin drawing i have ever seen

[ratagonia]

To use a single strand for an anchor:

- tie an overhand on a bight in each end of the webbing, forming loops at the ends.
- using the loops, girth hitch the webbing around the anchor
- use the free loop to thread your rope (normally with a rapide)
- be *very* careful as a single-strand anchor is especially vulnerable to abrasion

Yeah, what he said. Here's a picture of that...

Tom

[ratagonia]

I haven't had any formal training about what kind of knots to use with webbing, I've learned what I could pick up from other people. But I was wondering what kind of knots can be safely used with webbing? When I search on google about the only thing I can find is the water knot for making a loop out of a piece of webbing.

I have a new section on knots in webbing, including a couple of rigging thingees:

http://canyoneeringusa.com/cusapress/knots/index.php

Comments appreciated.

Tom

[Scott Card]

including a couple of rigging thingees:

Finally, someone who speaks my language

[Jaxx]

best freakin drawing i have ever seen

Thanks!
But I did warn you

I was going to explain how to do it but decided making a drawing that looks like a 5 yr old made it would be better.

[Felicia]

I have a new section on knots in webbing, including a couple of rigging thingees:

http://canyoneeringusa.com/cusapress/knots/index.php

Comments appreciated.

Tom

Tom, I have little practical experience in this subject, but I'm understanding the theory. I like your presentation style - the pictures are great and are very helpful. Thanks

[Jaxx]

Tom, I have little practical experience in this subject, but I'm understanding the theory. I like your presentation style - the pictures are great and are very helpful. Thanks

Ditto

[MSchasch]

I haven't had any formal training about what kind of knots to use with webbing, I've learned what I could pick up from other people. But I was wondering what kind of knots can be safely used with webbing? When I search on google about the only thing I can find is the water knot for making a loop out of a piece of webbing.

I have a new section on knots in webbing, including a couple of rigging thingees:

http://canyoneeringusa.com/cusapress/knots/index.php

Comments appreciated.

Tom

more MORE. Clean and simple, very nice.

Request: The few times I've tied a dead man I've used a "choker". How might I instead "gift wrap" a rock, like in the mind bender photos?

[moab mark]

Tom,
How about a anchor set up with the tie in point long enough to hang over a edge but with a courtesy tie in up higher? I've seen this done several different ways and I would like to see how you would do it.
Mark