Square Knot - under rated

[Mstr_Canyon]

I think the square knot is very under rated. This has saved my tail in more than one situation.

It is the most basic boy scout knot but I don't think enough people appreciate it.





Thanks.

Bill

[ratagonia]

I think the square knot is very under rated. This has saved my tail in more than one situation.

It is the most basic boy scout knot but I don't think enough people appreciate it.

Thanks.

Bill

Some would call that a "Granny Knot", some a "Troll", but few would consider it applicable to life-safety applications, for instance, canyoneering. I use a square knot for tying my shoes (variation) and for tying the rope into the rope bag. And I've always thought it was very handsome.

Tom

[trackrunner]

I use it for tying my shoes (variation)
Tom

How well does this hold up under load and stress for you? I haven't found it to be hold well for me. To much knot slippage so I now tie my shoes with a variation of the fishermen's knot. Never had my shoes come untied during a race ever since.

Hangman's knot is most under rated IMHO

[Scott Card]

Granny knot! (Tom beat me to it.....) Dang, that knot shown above would have failed in my troop. The true square/ reef knot needs a fishermans backup to be safe (at least that is what I learned). Darn things tend to loosen up pretty easily. I've never used one in canyoneering either. I was always taught the square knot looked like this: (from Grog's Animated Knots) notice the ropes of the same colors come out the same side of the loop.

[Scott Card]

Hangman's knot is most under rated IMHO

Nah....That sucker takes up waaaaay too much rope. The good old fashoned noose knot (I called it a slip knot) uses less rope and works as a lasso too. I caught many a neighbor's cat and dog with a simple noose

[shaggy125]

I use the square knot to save lives. Use it to hold Endotracheal tubes in place so patients can breath. I agree though, the original picture looks like a granny to me, Scott yours looks like the good old square.

[Scout Master]

OK Here is one for you boys. What is THIS knot? It is NOT a square knot. I know it looks just like one, but it is slightly different.

[nonot]

Right over left, left over right.

What's shown (edit: in the very first photo/post) is not a square knot.

A knot should be easy to tell if it is tied correctly. If you can't tell, don't use it in a situation your life depends on it!

Beginners should focus on a few main knots, heck you could probably get by all beginner canyons by just learning a figure 8 and a water knot.

Edit: other pictures appeared right as I posted this

[trackrunner]

I was always taught the square knot looked like this: (from Grog's Animated Knots) notice the ropes of the same colors come out the same side of the loop.

Your right. Same site has an example of a square knot.

http://www.geospectra.net/kite/knots/knot01.jpg



This is a Thief Knot is like the square but notice how the free ends are on opposite sides.
http://www.geospectra.net/kite/knots/knot02.jpg



This is the Granny Mstr_Canyon used
http://www.geospectra.net/kite/knots/knot03.jpg

Sheet Bend (knot04.jpg) > square

[trackrunner]

OK Here is one for you boys. What is THIS knot? It is NOT a square knot. I know it looks just like one, but it is slightly different.

Theif knot. It's the second knot I just posted

[nonot]

Is there any appreciable difference in strength between a reef knot and a thief knot?

[trackrunner]

Is there any appreciable difference in strength between a reef knot and a thief knot?

Yes

And using a square knot has little to no use in canyoneering IMO

Maybe to tie your shoe.

Use a much more sequre knot to rappel on, EKD, double fishermen's (not used as much anymore), follow through eight.

[ratagonia]

Is there any appreciable difference in strength between a reef knot and a thief knot?

There is not. both knots have a working strength of 0 (zero) pounds.

Ever noticed how your shoes come untied by themselves, once in a while?

T

[Scout Master]

OK Any one know why it is called a THIEFs knot?

[trackrunner]

OK Any one know why it is called a THIEFs knot?

A sailor would tie the theif knot and hide the tails to the draw sting of his personal bag. If someone came along and went through his personal belongings the robber would then replace it with a square knot, not knowing it was theif knot because the tails were hidden. This way a sailor would know if someone had gone through his belongings.

In other words it alowed an individual to identify is his bag has been tampored with.

[rockgremlin]

Is there any appreciable difference in strength between a reef knot and a thief knot?

There is not. both knots have a working strength of 0 (zero) pounds.

Ever noticed how your shoes come untied by themselves, once in a while?

T

I went canyoneering a long time ago with Benny, and at the final drop of Mindbender I joined two ropes together with a figure 8, backed up with fishermans (I know, overkill). Anyways, before Benny got on rappel, he re-tied the configuration using a square knot backed up with fishermans, claiming that it was much easier to undo the knot, and it held just as good given the fisherman backups. He claimed that RAM used this knot combo frequently, but that may just be rumor.

A square knot/fisherman combo is more than enough knot for joining together rope and pullcord IMO.

[ratagonia]

OK Any one know why it is called a THIEFs knot?

I'd heard it as the "Cook's Knot". On a ship, the cook would tie the food cupboards closed with a Cook's knot. The sailors would sneak into the galley at night, feel the knot and identify it as a square knot, untie, grab some food, re-tie as a square knot.

In the morning, busted!!

T

[ratagonia]

I went canyoneering a long time ago with Benny, and at the final drop of Mindbender I joined two ropes together with a figure 8, backed up with fishermans (I know, overkill). Anyways, before Benny got on rappel, he re-tied the configuration using a square knot backed up with fishermans, claiming that it was much easier to undo the knot, and it held just as good given the fisherman backups. He claimed that RAM used this knot combo frequently, but that may just be rumor.

A square knot/fisherman combo is more than enough knot for joining together rope and pullcord IMO.

That's a fairly complex knot. NOT Ram's M.O. Unlikely.

Overhand EDK with overhand backup works for me. Easy to tie, easy to untie, easy to inspect.

Tom ....................

[hank moon]

That's a fairly complex knot. NOT Ram's M.O.

Ram just picks up the ropes and looks at them. A moment or two of Ram-gaze provides ample rope-joining security.

[Scott Card]

That's a fairly complex knot. NOT Ram's M.O.

Ram just picks up the ropes and looks at them. A moment or two of Ram-gaze provides ample rope-joining security.