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Thread: HITR - January 09
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01-24-2009, 06:29 PM #41Originally Posted by Reedus
I've already told you why the Rincon is closed, because it was never officially opened. It was a privately built road accessing a private mine claim, the park service took over the land with the creation of GCNRA and never considered it a route. All your rogue actions will do nothing to change that and only stand to hurt it.
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
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01-24-2009 06:29 PM # ADS
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01-24-2009, 06:41 PM #42
I just gotta say HUZZAH for ExpUT, and Reedus, well...you can't say "the man made it so I can't drive wherever the f*&^ I please, and f*&^ soil and the people who care about it" and then claim to be a responsible OHV owner. you clearly are the douchebag that you come off as...
Tear down Dams, Build up Dreams!
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01-24-2009, 06:42 PM #43
You're right, I have no initiative. Game over I am done here.
Douche canoe...
Haven't heard that one before
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01-24-2009, 06:44 PM #44
Fouristhequeerone:
I like your signature. I have some tannerite you could use to tear down your dam and build up your dreams. Hit me PM
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01-24-2009, 06:54 PM #45
Deer Reedus - attacks on my sexual orientation, well,, their kind of gay. and thanks but no thanks on the tannerite. I'm busy training dolphins to tow barges full of tnt...it's taking a while, but I'm sure it'll pay off, hell, worst it can do is give you some more dry soil to drive over, right?
Tear down Dams, Build up Dreams!
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01-24-2009, 07:12 PM #46Originally Posted by Reedus
http://www.sharetrails.org/
Then, find an OHV group in your area to join, this would be close to home:
http://www.seuohvclub.org/
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01-24-2009, 09:34 PM #47We are on the same page when it comes to off trail riding. I don't go around as Scott claimed "tearing up the land" with no regard to the effects. I stay on trail/roads and play by the rules in that aspect.
It is when roads/trails that have existed for a LONG time are shut down that I get pissed and have a rebellious attitude.
As far as Factory Butte goes, my father was in the second group in history to run Muddy Creek (he ran it in a canoe only one week after the first run). That was only a few decades ago and I remember him speaking of how wild and special the area was. Even as recently 1987, the book Utah Wildlands (see page 84) has some wonderful photos of Factory Butte in pristine condition and says the following:
Factory Butte sits in a vast roadless area reaching north from the Fremont River into the heart of the San Rafael Swell. In every direction the landscape is astounding: solitary buttes, thousand-foot clifflines, rainbow-colored badlands, dark volcanic mountains and narrow "reefs" of tilted sedimentary rock.
In my eyes I can actually see both sides of the arguement for Factory Butte (it was actually closed for a type of cactus, not wilderness designation), but not in places that were more recently trashed such as Ponderosa Cove, Devils Racetrack or any of the new tracks between I-70 and Lone Tree Crossing for example. They are new creations and if so in my own opinion (obviously others disagree) since so many new tracks have been opened and are being used it is only fair that some old ones might be closed everyonce in a while, at least as long as all these new ones start popping up. As pointed out on another thread, there are literally hundreds of new tracks that have popped up in recent decades in formerly roadless areas. On the other thread I even provided coordinates and google earth photos as well as even span of dates some were created in of just some of the newly created tracks out there. It is my feeling that there are already plenty of roads and tracks out there that can be used before making new ones or before riding off-trail. I'm not against roads at all (I'm a highway engineer); I just don't see the need for a bunch of new tracks in every roadless or formerly roadless area out there. Although people here disagree, since there are so many new roads and tracks being created out there, I even don't see any problem with closing a few old ones to compensate for the loss of roadless areas.
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01-24-2009, 10:49 PM #48Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Originally Posted by Reedus
Wow. To the SUWA, Wilderness Society and Sierra Club operatives reading this thread: this guy does NOT represent the majority of motorized recreation users.
Originally Posted by Reedus
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01-24-2009, 10:53 PM #49Originally Posted by Scott P
Originally Posted by Scott P
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01-25-2009, 08:22 AM #50
Scoutabout, I agree to your post above to Reedus. Even though we disagree with each other on many issues I agree with every point.
Here are my honest answers to your questions and comments directed towards me.
Should we close hiking routes for every switchback that gets cut by a lazy hiker?
Should we close old hiking routes whenever new miles are established?
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01-25-2009, 10:04 AM #51
Offense? None taken, even the name calling by ExpUT. Again, I am out of line if I really sit down and think about it, but my comments in this thread are a build up of frustration over the few last years of roads being closed that were once open or at least no one cared about OHV use on them. Being rebellious isn't the best method of tackling it, but sometimes my anti-authority personality comes out.
Reedus aka "The Douche Canoe"
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01-25-2009, 11:21 AM #52Originally Posted by Reedus
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01-25-2009, 12:16 PM #53
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01-25-2009, 01:12 PM #54Originally Posted by Reedus
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01-25-2009, 04:43 PM #55Scott P and his friends want to ELIMINATE motorized recreation on public lands
You know the statement above isn't true, so why claim it? I even took your side on many of the issues in this thread.
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01-25-2009, 04:59 PM #56Originally Posted by Scott P
You beat me this year. I've been working out of state (Texas), and I spent 44 total nights in Utah in 2008. Of those 44, I was on the trail for 19. I don't count graded county roads leading to hiking trailheads as "4wd roads" although they do meet the technical definition.
Originally Posted by Scott P
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01-25-2009, 06:04 PM #57I don't count graded county roads leading to hiking trailheads as "4wd roads" although they do meet the technical definition.
Anyway, here are some of the 4wd roads I drove last year and they are not graded county roads, though some are rougher than others. I'll just list some of the well known ones.
December 6: With tire chains, made it all the way to 10,600 feet on the Lake Fork Road (CO). Not bad for December.
November 28: Gemini Bridges and Long Canyon (UT). Only did a short hike around Gemini Bridges. The rest was for fun. Not rough ones, but fun, scenic and I like them.
November 23: Got a flat tire on the Serviceberry Road in Dino National Monument. It was a side trip to an overlook and I wish this time we would have stuck to the county road since the flat tire on the very rough road was one reason we got stranded at night on our voluntary quest to find the bighorn collar for the park service/division of wildlife. Definitely not a graded county road.
October 25: It was to get to a hike, but the Indian Rock/Bald Mountain Basin Road (CO) is very rough at least for mostly stock SUV
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01-25-2009, 07:41 PM #58Originally Posted by Reedus
It sounds like you didn't know it was closed. Probably isnt. It's always seems unclear and never spelled out clearly if an area is open or not. No worries. I do my best to avoid the areas that are closed and do as much due diligence as possible before going but sometimes you can't know everything. I once ended up in an area that was closed. I didn't know. The desert ranger guy told me nothing to worry about and then we spent 45 minutes talking about loopholes for all of the 'closed' areas. He says that unless its posted and clearly documented on a map that there isn't much you can do about it. But I do know a guy who got ticketed on the Paiute trail for $200 so I try to be careful.
Let me know the next time you go. I'd gladly go with you. In fact i've got a big Vegas crowd that has been looking at that trail. I'll hit you sideband to get the details.beefcake. BEEFCAKE!
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01-26-2009, 10:04 AM #59Originally Posted by nelsonccc
A group of us have been looking into this, Alan Peterson from MotoUtah (and a literal savior of trails in the Price area), has sent an email to the county asking for clarification on this and several other trails within the GLNRA. I'll be sure to report back.
"Bending" the laws might work for your outdoor ethic, but when it impedes the hard work of others, it doesn't work for mine. We all know how long it takes to make a "posted" trail... well, un-posted. And that is no longer the way things work with these new RMP's, its to be considered closed unless posted open. Its sad it came to this but blatant abuses and disregard for laws forced the hand.
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01-27-2009, 03:27 PM #60
[quote="Scott P"]
Same thing has happened to many former great hiking trails/routes because they have been turned to ATV routes. I already mentioned the Devils Racetrack. It used to be a really special place to visit (for those whom like wilderness at least) before it was turned into a road/ATV track. As far as I know, it never was a historic road, but a recent creation.
Not true.
Devils Race Track has been used since 1875. It was first discovered by Joe Swasey and most likely his three brothers. Devils Race Track was used to move livestock and people from Ferron to the Head of Sinbad. Wheeled vehicles have been using this trail prior to 1900. The family of Joe Swasey has a picture of him in a horse drawn carriage (with four wheels) going down Devil's Race track prior to 1900.
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