Who are these guys???

[Iceaxe]

Who the hell are these guys? Anyone know anything about them?

Sandstone Trails
http://www.sandstonetrails.com/

Looks like they are guiding a few tech canyons, just curious. I found it a little strange there are no names on the website or "meet our guides" type of thing.

I thought I was acquainted with everyone who guides canyons on the Colorado Plateau and I've never heard of these guys before today when someone asked me for a reference/recommendation in regards to them.

Anyone know anything?

[Udink]

I googled their phone number, and it showed up on Farmington City's business license listing, registered to Kim Stevenson.

[rockgremlin]

Yet another guiding company springs from the woodwork...


Seems like a precarious position to be in. It only takes one flash flood to get yourself in some verrrrrry hot water!

<cough,cough, Capitol Reef Backcountry Outfitters cough, cough>

Sorry, I've got a little tickle in my throat today.

[Iceaxe]

Seems like a precarious position to be in. It only takes one flash flood to get yourself in some verrrrrry hot water!

<cough>

I'm no lawyer.... but.... simple answer.... These guys incorporate as a business and follow the rules and if things go tits up you can sue the company but not the individuals. The company has no major assets worth the trouble of suing.

[rockgremlin]

Still...the lives of others are in your hands. I'd hate to have someone else's death riding on my conscience, whether or not I'm immune to lawsuit.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: I looked into starting a guide company at one time and it was not hard, insurance was the major obstacle..... and you needed insurance to get the land agency permits.... my adventure went something like this....

Ice: I'm interested in insurance for a canyoneering company.

Insurance Guy: What's that?

Ice: Hiking, swimming, and sliding down ropes in a slot canyon.

Insurance Guy: You climb with ropes? Rock climbing is expensive to insure.

Ice: No, we only rappel.

Insurance Guy: No Climbing?

Ice: No, only sliding down.

Insurance Guy: Oh OK, that will only cost 1/4 as much.

[ratagonia]

I'm no lawyer.... but.... simple answer.... These guys incorporate as a business and follow the rules and if things go tits up you can sue the company but not the individuals. The company has no major assets worth the trouble of suing.

But, in order to get your NPS and BLM permit, you need a million bucks in liability insurance. There's a million bucks to go after, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) guarded by a bunch of pretty-good lawyers.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

But, in order to get your NPS and BLM permit, you need a million bucks in liability insurance. There's a million bucks to go after, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) guarded by a bunch of pretty-good lawyers.

Yeah.... but that's the insurance companies problem to deal with. Their lawyers and their money.

[ratagonia]

But, in order to get your NPS and BLM permit, you need a million bucks in liability insurance. There's a million bucks to go after, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) guarded by a bunch of pretty-good lawyers.

Yeah.... but that's the insurance companies problem to deal with. Their lawyers and their money.

Could be. Could be criminal negligence. Your insurance won't do you much good there - they might even join in the fun.

Going before a Utah jury - eeek!

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Could be. Could be criminal negligence. Your insurance won't do you much good there - they might even join in the fun.

Going before a Utah jury - eeek!

You face the same dilemma as a guide for ZAC.... you face the same dilemma driving your car to the canyon.... you face the same dilemma as a gear manufacturer.

Not saying you will skate off completely free in event of an accident.... just saying its not hard to become a guide and the risks are small.

[hank moon]

http://micurl.com/qni4hz

[ratagonia]

http://micurl.com/qni4hz

Registrant:
Sandstone Trails, LLC

1147 North Quail Flight Rd
Farmington, Utah 84025
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: SANDSTONETRAILS.COM
Created on: 20-Feb-08
Expires on: 20-Feb-13
Last Updated on: 13-Mar-08

Administrative Contact:
Stevenson, Kim pakim12@msn.com
Sandstone Trails, LLC
1147 North Quail Flight Rd
Farmington, Utah 84025
United States
(801) 231-2715

Technical Contact:
Stevenson, Kim pakim12@msn.com
Sandstone Trails, LLC
1147 North Quail Flight Rd
Farmington, Utah 84025
United States
(801) 231-2715

[Iceaxe]

So.... bottom line.... these guys are guiding tech canyons and no one who is anyone in the canyon community has ever heard of them.

Guess that answers the reference/recommendation question I was asked... thanks....

[Jaxx]

In the pics on the website, NO HELMETS!!!!

[rockgremlin]

In the pics on the website, NO HELMETS!!!!

Whoops!!

[moab mark]

Unless they are just the middle man for someone down south, how can you make a dime guiding if you have to travel all the way from farmington each time?

I live in kaysville and there are a couple of scout guys I have heard of in farmington that take (for a fee) other scout masters out and give them training, it could be those guys?
Mark

[ratagonia]

So.... bottom line.... these guys are guiding tech canyons and no one who is anyone in the canyon community has ever heard of them.

Guess that answers the reference/recommendation question I was asked... thanks....

Actually, looks like they are guiding NON_TECH canyons. maybe a rappel here and there, but... I mean, how hard can it be - monkees can do it.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

I mean, how hard can it be - monkees can do it.

Yeah.... and we all remember what happened last time monkey's were in charge.

[nat]

I mean, how hard can it be - monkees can do it.

Yeah.... and we all remember what happened last time monkey's were in charge.

One of the Planet of the Apes movies?

Nat

[Sombeech]

Hey, I was looking for that lost picture of this year's Noobfest.