Anybody used one of these?

[bbennett]

http://dixonrollerpack.com/3399.html

I may be way behind the power curve on this one but I just came across it today. It sure looks weird but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

Experience? Thoughts?

[goofball]

one year we decided to pull a sled on a winter snowshoe trip. pack more, carry less, nice ! not so much. we forgot to consider ground is not alweays nice and flat. oops ! there went the sled again down the hill towards the river ! this looks just as impractical. ground is not always level or flat. and if all it holds is 4500ci, why not wear a backpack and have MUCH greater mobility ? not sure how comfy this would really be either.

just my thoughts.

[Brian in SLC]

http://dixonrollerpack.com/3399.html

I may be way behind the power curve on this one but I just came across it today. It sure looks weird but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

Experience? Thoughts?

Wouldn't be legal to use in any wilderness area.

-Brian in SLC

[Sombeech]

Actually I think the sled part might be legal to use during the winter in the Wilderness, based on snowmobiles being legal.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Actually I think the sled part might be legal to use during the winter in the Wilderness, based on snowmobiles being legal.

Snowmobiles are not allowed in wilderness areas.

[Sombeech]

Snowmobiles are given a lot more access than you think. It might not be the entire wilderness, but snowmobiles can access more areas than ATVs, and even mountain bikes.

But either way, you'd mostly only use this ski attachment on the actual trail, so I'm thinking you'd be OK.

The only reason for the ban on the wheel is the creating of a "continuous line" on the trail, inviting erosion - which I think is HORSE s**t.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Snowmobiles are given a lot more access than you think. It might not be the entire wilderness, but snowmobiles can access more areas than ATVs, and even mountain bikes.

They do have reasonable access, but wilderness areas are off-limits to all motorized vehicles. Period.

[Brian in SLC]

Snowmobiles are given a lot more access than you think. It might not be the entire wilderness, but snowmobiles can access more areas than ATVs, and even mountain bikes.

They do have reasonable access, but wilderness areas are off-limits to all motorized vehicles. Period.

And anything with a wheel, motorized or not.

There's a roadless area in Montana (near Missoula) that allows the use of mountain bikes. Its also a hunting area, and, the saavy locals have developed these really cool trailers for use with their bikes to haul game out on.

Snowmobiles have no special access in Wilderness, not that they don't push it.

Incident in Montana that happened when I was a kid. Hilarious. Posted below. Still talked about as legend.

As an aside, John Melcher's wife was my 4th grade teacher...

-Brian in SLC

Snow Machines in the Gardens
The History of Snowmobiles in Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks
by Michael J. Yochim

Shards of metal lay on the snow next to the machine, and the acrid smell of gunpowder permeated the air. The snowmobile was seriously injured.

Late one December night in 1974 on Marias Pass, Glacier National Park ranger Art Sedlack put a bullet through a snowmobile. With this shot, Sedlack not only gained the upper hand in dealing with group of law-breaking snowmobilers, he also became an instant hero to all who valued wilderness. At heart, though, Sedlack's shot revealed the conflict Glacier officials faced over the question of snowmobile use in the park. In October 1975 Superintendent Phillip Iversen announced the decision to ban the use of snowmobiles in the park.

At the same time, about four hundred miles to the south, Yellowstone National Park Superintendent Jack Anderson was busily taking steps to allow snowmobiles into the park: opening a hotel at Old Faithful for winter use, maintaining roads for snowmobiles, and formulating a formal policy. Anderson was personally fond of snowmobiling, touting it as "a great experience and a great sport, one of the cleanest types of recreation I know." To him, snowmobiling was the solution to a thorny dilemma: how to allow wintertime visitors to use the park without impairing it.1

The actions of the National Park Service (NPS) in these two parks were in conflict with each other and yet were both defensible in light of the agency's mission to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wild life therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.2 One park leaned toward preservation while the other veered toward visitor accommodation. One park chose to accommodate visitors on skis while the other accommodated them on snowmobile's and both decisions were heavily influenced by local opinion.

Although snowmobile prototypes had been around since the 1940s, in the early 1960s design improvements led to the first mass marketing of the machines in the upper Midwest. Introduced at a time when the country's baby-boomers were reaching maturity, the snowmobile's popularity grew rapidly. They were the winter equivalent of the automobile, the machine that embodied Americans' infatuation with freedom and independence. Now, with snowmobiles to ride, Americans could explore their country in winter and without the work that cross-country skiing entailed. The number of snowmobiles increased from fewer than a hundred thousand in 1975 to almost 2 million by Christmas 1971.3

Conservationists nationwide decried the explosion of snowmobile use and clamored for regulation of the machines.4 Early snowmobiles typically had two-stroke engines that were both noisy and polluting, traits that brought them into conflict with cross-country skiers, who generally sought a quiet, contemplative experience. Though Congress investigated the matter and called for a resolution, members failed to enact it.5 President Nixon, however, answered public concern in 1972 by issuing Executive Order 11644. The "Use of Off-Road Vehicles on the Public Lands" order instructed agency heads to issue regulations that ensured off-road-vehicle trails and areas were situated so as to minimize wildlife harassment, conflicts with other users, and damage to vegetation and soils. The order noted that noise should be kept in mind when locating trails and that managers should only allow off-road vehicle use if it "will not adversely affect the natural, aesthetic, or scenic values of the managers' lands."6 An extension of the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, the executive order carried the force of law.

In 1974, probably in reaction to Nixon's order, acting Rocky Mountain Regional Director Glen Bean directed all NPS superintendents in his region to prepare an environmental statement regarding snowmobile use.7 In Glacier that directive precipitated a controversy: the park had to decide how to reconcile snowmobilers' use of the park with skiers' demands for winter tranquility. To some observers, Art Sedlack's solution seemed the best option.

Violations of federal and state law banning the use of snowmobiles on highways were common on the three-mile stretch of U.S. Highway 2 that lay inside the park boundary. On the night of December 27, 1974, Sedlack observed four snowmobilers on that stretch and warned them not to use the road to re-enter the park, but an hour later he again heard their roar. Jumping into his four-wheel-drive patrol vehicle, Sedlack gave chase. When two of the snowmobilers stopped on the roadway to let their engines cool, Sedlack plowed his rig into a snow bank and stepped out to confront them. As Sedlack approached Ed Peterson and Jim Van De Riet, the danger of the situation sank in: he was the only law enforcement ranger within miles, confronting men who were possibly intoxicated and dangerous. He needed to establish control over the situation. Sedlack first tried to disable a snowmobile by pulling out a spark plug. When that effort failed, he pulled out his .38-caliber pistol and effectively disabled the machine. He then cited the men, who each paid a twenty-five-dollar fine.8

Within a day, the Associated Press had broadcast news of the shooting nationwide, and Sedlack quite unintentionally became a hero. In the nearby Flathead Valley, home to many cross-country skiers, his shot was memorialized by a parade float in Whitefish's winter carnival. Park officials received numerous letters, all in support of the ranger, and Sedlack himself received countless supportive letters, some containing monetary contributions. Montana Senator Lee Metcalf privately congratulated him. The Montana Wilderness Association even created an award in his honor the Sedlack Award, given annually to the person (or being) committing the most outrageous act in defense of wilderness.9

Sedlack' actions also drew attention from fellow NPS employees. Yellowstone Park naturalist Paul Schullery suggested that Sedlack had just done what we all had wanted to do, many times. Shooting the machine, someone remarked, was even better than shooting the driver. . . . There was no question in our minds that the man was a hero. There was talk of taking up a collection and buying him a [M]agnum. And a few days after the incident, a little note appeared on the ranger office bulletin board: Snow machines will not be shot. They will be live-trapped.10

Meanwhile, Sedlack was suspended for two weeks without pay, and the NPS held a hearing on the shooting. According to Sedlack, the Park Service reached no conclusion but did send him to the NPS law enforcement academy shortly thereafter.11

Regulating snowmobile use in Glacier was not a new problem. Since the late 1960s as many as 1,393 snowmobilers visited Glacier each winter. Snowmobilers could use all of the park's 110 miles of unplowed roads, with the exception of the Going-to-the-Sun Road from Lake McDonald to the Jackson Glacier Overlook. However, by 1972 the number of snowmobilers was declining. At the same time, the number of cross-country skier visits increased from 877 in 1972-1973 to 2,998 two winters later.12

In 1974 Glacier administrators began to draft the requested environmental assessment on snowmobile visitation. Aware that Superintendent Anderson had formally designated Yellowstone interior roads as snowmobile routes that year, Glacier Acting Superintendent Richard Munro wrote to Yellowstone officials requesting any Yellowstone studies evaluating the effects of snowmobiles on wildlife. Munro assumed that the park had also completed an environmental assessment of snowmobile use. In reality, Yellowstone managers did not formally study the environmental impact of snowmobiles until the late 1980s. Failing to obtain information from Yellowstone, Glacier officials turned to the flurry of scientific studies that had resulted from the sudden growth in snowmobile use in the Midwest.13

The Glacier environmental assessment concluded that winter stress determined population levels for many, if not most, wildlife species in the park and that snowmobile disturbances caused wildlife to lose body weight and increased their susceptibility to disease. Deer used snowmobile tracks to move from one area to another, and elk avoided and even ran from snowmobiles, keeping distances of at least a half mile between themselves and snowmobile areas. Compacted snow kept birds from roosting and displaced subnivean mammals such as mice and voles. Another problem was that poachers used snowmobiles to hunt and trap wildlife on the east side of the park. Vegetation could suffer as well, both through mechanical damage such as crushing and through compaction, which reduces the amount of insulating air in the snowpack.14

The environmental assessment also noted two administrative problems created by snowmobiles. By compacting the snow on the roads, snowmobiles made spring plowing more difficult, and if snowmobile use increased, trail maintenance would be necessary to smooth the roller-coaster surface that developed on the roads. Yellowstone colleagues may have informed the authors on this matter. Snowmobiles had been allowed in Yellowstone for years, and for the last three or four years the park had been forced to groom heavily traveled routes. Plowing the hard-packed snow in spring was becoming increasingly difficult.15

Broadening the environmental assessment beyond scientific findings, park officials included a lengthy discussion of snowmobile impacts on visitors' qualitative experiences. The document noted that snowmobile noise disturbed the aesthetic experience of the snowshoer or skier. For these visitors, solitude and quiet were valuable resources. Moreover, snowmobile air emissions lingered on still days and were offensive to people and wildlife. Finally, although snowmobiles made the park accessible to the old, very young, and physically handicapped, their use conflicted with that of other, more numerous park users.16

When the draft assessment was complete, Glacier officials held two meetings to seek public input. In November 1974 eighty-seven people attended a meeting in West Glacier. Participants comments echoed park officials concerns about the effects of snowmobiles on wildlife, vegetation damage, noise, and aesthetics. They generally favored closure. More than fifty people attended the meeting in Cut Bank. Most people there were in favor of continued snowmobile use. Snowmobilers may have been more common east of the park because farmers and ranchers used the machines in their work.17

After receiving public comment, Superintendent Phillip Iversen's staff revised the document and opened it up for written comments. During the comment period, they received 438 letters and petitions with 976 names that stood in opposition to snowmobiling. Twenty-two letters and petitions with 691 names favored the continued use of snowmobiles in the park.18

With a majority clearly opposed to snowmobile use, Superintendent Iversen announced a ban on snowmobiles on October 2, 1975. He used the decline in snowmobile visitation and the increase in skier visitation as justification for his decision, but the primary reason for the ban was snowmobile noise.19 Solitude, peace, and tranquility were resources identified with the winter experience in Glacier, and more than anything else it was the disruption of these that swayed decision-makers. Glacier wilderness specialist Robert Morey echoed this reasoning at a talk given to the Montana Snowmobile Association a year later. He noted that a different atmosphere prevails within this precipitous mountain country in winter. Again and again over the next few years, Iversen and his staff would argue that snowmobiles usurped the park's silence and were therefore unacceptable.20

Snowmobile supporters quickly questioned Iversen's decision. Only a month after Iversen announced it, five snowmobilers from Conrad and Cut Bank appealed to him to rescind the decision. They questioned many of the reasons for the decision, noting in particular that a localized prejudiced group from Missoula had submitted an excessive number of letters, thereby altering the balance of public opinion. Iversen responded by defending his decision: Glacier National Park takes on a completely different aspect when covered in a heavy mantle of winter snow. It is an entirely different situation than during summer months. Roads and trails are obliterated and the busy, densely used valleys of summer become the wilderness backcountry in winter.21

Congressman John Melcher soon heard from his angry constituents, and he promised them that the NPS would hold public hearings on the matter. This promise upset Iversen, who suggested to Melcher's staff that perhaps the snowmobilers had been â