Teen dies after crowd taunts him to jump

[TreeHugger]

Now there is one area where I feel bad regarding suicide. Soldiers...

Hypocritical, but hey, politically correct. Very nice of you to make that exception to your totally bogus and completely unbelievable view on life. Soldiers have hundreds of places to get help too. Everything you said about that dude on the roof applies to them too. So, if the guy on the roof was in jeans and a TShirt causing a traffic jam wanting to kill himself, would you still encourage him to jump? Ya know, it's hard to tell about a person in jeans and a t-shirt: He MIGHT BE A SOLDIER. Or is it just that you have a thing about goth-y lookin' people, they obviously are worthless pieces of crap and might as well just die.
Oh yeah, and what about the horrors that young guy may have faced - YOU DONT KNOW what has been going on in his life. Perhaps he's been sexually assaulted since he was 4 years old, maybe he's had to watch his sister get sexually assaulted, maybe he's been the family punching bag, or locked up in a basement and fed $hit for 5 years... YOU DONT KNOW. And like James said, mental illness distorts your ability to see things clearly AND get help. YOU DONT KNOW.

[TreeHugger]

Bring it on hippies!

ANd what the hell does mean or imply? What on freakin' earth do HIPPIES have to do with anything?

[Deathcricket]

Well I would agree (with you) that a person's problems are all a matter of perception. And a person committing suicide perceives small problems in their life to be major problems that are insurmountable.

Does that mean that the soldiers are too lazy too?

In my mind living with the fact that it was your duty to blow a guys brains out because your country asks you too is vastly different than any possible problem a normal human can face. I also think that soldiers who live in a military situation being told what to do, think, eat, and sleep, would cause trauma once that is taken away. I think soldiers are naturally self reliant and bite off "more than they can chew" and it ends up dominating them. granted I'm not in their shoes but suspect this is the case. I just know it would haunt me for all my days if this was forced upon me. But its a clear difference at least in my mind, than "I lost my job, girlfriend, son, etc". Which brings me to my next point.

When your next door neighbor comes over and kills your wife and kid, I’m sure your friends and family will consol you with this exact statement.

Not even a valid comparison. Suicide is completely different than murder. My wife and kids lives are valuable. Someone taking their lives away is completely different than some loser who perceives his life has no meaning and takes his own. But for the sake of argument I will still answer the question.

In that event I would do my best to punish whoever did that and make them suffer as much as possible for as long as possible before killing them with my bare hands. I doubt it would make me feel better but it would be a start. To be honest i would probably try to live with it as much as possible and deal with the pain. But i suspect that after a period of time it wouldn't ease and I would kill myself too. My life would have no meaning and be empty. Would I be standing on a rooftop gathering a crowd, or sitting on a bridge stopping traffic like a selfish prick? No, I would OD on some drugs or blow my brains out in private like a normal person should. But the point is, I would expect everyone else to understand and respect my choice. If you're going to get help don't be lazy and expect help to come to you, if you're going to commit suicide, don't put on a show and just do it.

The flaw in you thinking comes from where you believe that people who are deciding to commit suicide are their own best judge.

See now this is a sound piece of logic and very difficult for me to argue with. I'm probably not going to be able to over the "net", but will try. I believe that all people know themselves better than ANY person on the planet and are best qualified to judge. In fact I would say that the only person even qualified to judge if your life is worth living is... well you. For us to tell someone else what is best for them when we clearly aren't them is a greater sin than a couple of people who are perhaps mentally imbalanced and a little happy pill could save.

Life should be celebrated and preserved, and help should be offered to anyone standing on the brink of oblivion with the assumption that they are not being their better self. That’s why you don’t cheer for some poor bastard to jump off a building or label them as just lazy.

I would state that life for life's sake is NOT worth celebrating. I support preserving life, on the supposition that people have the potential to be happy and do great things. When I see a child (for instance) it makes me happy inside not because they are alive, but because they have a long life ahead of them and the possibility to make great choices and do great things. Each person has the choice to live their life and be judged by their actions, intentions, and even quality of life. I would argue that by not allowing someone to commit suicide and forcing them to live, it makes those of us who are still alive and cherish life that much weaker. Life is a gift to be treasured, not a "burden" we must all bear.

[Randi]

Bring it on hippies!

ANd what the hell does mean or imply? What on freakin' earth do HIPPIES have to do with anything?

I think he's probably elluding to the fact that hippes are all about "love and peace and understanding".

Interesting responses. I'm probably the extreme end of the spectrum. I've no pity for a loser that takes his life.

Sadly, it looks like quite a few of you here on Bogley, and at least a handful of those "on-lookers" to this tragedy, adhere to the above philosophy. It’s looking like the more “extreme” end of the spectrum would be feeling compassion and a sense of sorrow for what happened that day.

I feel shame for the whole of humanity when I witness this kind of blatant disregard for the sanctity of life. Especially the life of a fellow human being! He was somebody’s son for god’s sake!

You didn’t walk in his shoes.
You didn’t see life through his eyes.
You didn’t face the circumstances that he faced.

You can't possibly know what demon's haunted him enough to even consider taking his own life. And the fact that people egged him on just makes me sick to my stomach.
And the fact that some of you here actually support that kind of behavior leaves me with an “oh my god we’re doomed as a species” feeling.

The only saving grace, might be the “hippies” or people who care about other people regardless of whether they’re strong or weak (and yeah, some people just aren’t equipped with the spiritual fortitude that others are). I can’t even begin to fathom where this lack of compassion comes from!

Yeah, at the end of the day, we’re all responsible for the choices we make, but that doesn’t justify a cold indifference toward your fellow man. The stances some of you are putting forth on this thread is just mind-boggling to me. And very dis-heartening.

[Deathcricket]

First, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills to be able to argue effectively.

So, if the guy on the roof was in jeans and a TShirt causing a traffic jam wanting to kill himself, would you still encourage him to jump?.

I'm not saying I would have jeered him on, but society has a fascination with death. So I can understand people wanting to see him splat.

YOU DONT KNOW

Does it even matter what his problems are? No it does not. Whatever they are, they are beyond his ability to deal with and he obviously doesn't want help from normal outlets.

So we don't know WHAT his problems are, yet you feel qualified to make decisions in his best interests? Sounds almost "god-like" to me, I'm impressed.



Oh, the hippies remark... ya know.. peace love understanding.. pity for the weak...

[abirken]

I just think there should be no room for disagreement on this topic but apparently there is. In my world, there is and would be total compassion for an individual in that kind of mental pain. Call me the compassionate one. Randi, Tree and a few other peace, loving, hippie, Bogley folks on here summed up everything I could have said and BETTER.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Jeez Cricket… I can’t believe you are arguing this. Maybe I should start calling you Death. I respect your effort to layout your position in detail. But unfortunately your entire premise is flawed.

Well I still don’t understand why you’d make exception for soldiers and not for anyone else. If you followed your own logic, then the soldier who wants to commit suicide is the best “judge” of the value of his life and you are acting “god-like” to suggest he do otherwise.

You missed my point with the neighbor analogy. This is what you said:

The world is overpopulated, and human life isn't as important as everyone makes it out to be.

My wife and kids lives are valuable.

I would OD on some drugs or blow my brains out in private like a normal person should.

The family that has to deal with the mess left behind, hell ya I feel bad for them.

So which is it? Your statements are in direct conflict with one another.

I agree that all things being equal, that the individual is the best one to decide if their life is worth living. But I would say that for the majority of people who are contemplating suicide that all things are not equal. Most are in a mental state where they are not making rational decisions. Maybe it is a cry for help. I would admit that there may be some people that are so far gone that they are determined to die no matter what. But just because they step out on to that roof, I am not going to assume that no part of them wants to be helped.

And that’s the difference right there Cricket. You are assuming that just because someone is gesturing suicide they are beyond help. So you or anybody else should feel no pity or should not get in their way. Don’t you see that you are also making a “God-like” judgment of them too?

So we are both making assumptions of other people’s lives. Having pity for them and trying to help them off the ledge is the correct thing to do and I will show you why. If I am right and you’re wrong then maybe someone’s life will be preserved and they get better and realize their “potential to be happy and do great things.”

If you are right and I am wrong then we stop them from dying this time but they are beyond help and next time they do it in a way that nobody can stop them, but at least we tried.

But if we go your route and just disregard everyone who considers committing suicide then we are letting the ones who want help die. I would rather pity every person who commits suicide or the gesture than turn a deaf ear to people who may want help.



James

[R]

I had a close friend shoot herself to death in the winter of 1994. She had a lot to offer - a talented nurse, a skilled seamstress, a great musician. She had a lot of hurt, though, and it consumed her. She wasn't a loser, she was just wounded. After she died, her family gave me her diary, and I discovered she had made all the entries out to me; they all began, "Dear Richard."

I don't know how I could have saved her, but I know that if somehow we had saved her, she would have brought something into the world, something meaningful and important. Right now I know someone like her, someone who is hurting and can't find the answer. I hope she knows that she can call me or Abby if it would help. And if she is, one day, on that ledge, I'll try to talk her down.

[TreeHugger]

Bring it on hippies!

ANd what the hell does mean or imply? What on freakin' earth do HIPPIES have to do with anything?

I think he's probably elluding to the fact that hippes are all about "love and peace and understanding".

Interesting responses. I'm probably the extreme end of the spectrum. I've no pity for a loser that takes his life.

Sadly, it looks like quite a few of you here on Bogley, and at least a handful of those "on-lookers" to this tragedy, adhere to the above philosophy. It’s looking like the more “extreme” end of the spectrum would be feeling compassion and a sense of sorrow for what happened that day.

I feel shame for the whole of humanity when I witness this kind of blatant disregard for the sanctity of life. Especially the life of a fellow human being! He was somebody’s son for god’s sake!

You didn’t walk in his shoes.
You didn’t see life through his eyes.
You didn’t face the circumstances that he faced.

You can't possibly know what demon's haunted him enough to even consider taking his own life. And the fact that people egged him on just makes me sick to my stomach.
And the fact that some of you here actually support that kind of behavior leaves me with an “oh my god we’re doomed as a species” feeling.

The only saving grace, might be the “hippies” or people who care about other people regardless of whether they’re strong or weak (and yeah, some people just aren’t equipped with the spiritual fortitude that others are). I can’t even begin to fathom where this lack of compassion comes from!

Yeah, at the end of the day, we’re all responsible for the choices we make, but that doesn’t justify a cold indifference toward your fellow man. The stances some of you are putting forth on this thread is just mind-boggling to me. And very dis-heartening.

Well put , Randi.

And if it's the Hippies that bring about peace love and UNDERSTANDING, count me in - much better than the alternative.

[Deathcricket]

We are way to polarized for you to understand my position. And clearly I'm pissing people off by speaking it, so will shut up. but just wanted to quote this....

I agree that all things being equal, that the individual is the best one to decide if their life is worth living. But I would say that for the majority of people who are contemplating suicide that all things are not equal. Most are in a mental state where they are not making rational decisions. Maybe it is a cry for help. I would admit that there may be some people that are so far gone that they are determined to die no matter what. But just because they step out on to that roof, I am not going to assume that no part of them wants to be helped.

And that’s the difference right there Cricket. You are assuming that just because someone is gesturing suicide they are beyond help. So you or anybody else should feel no pity or should not get in their way. Don’t you see that you are also making a “God-like” judgment of them too?

So we are both making assumptions of other people’s lives. Having pity for them and trying to help them off the ledge is the correct thing to do and I will show you why. If I am right and you’re wrong then maybe someone’s life will be preserved and they get better and realize their “potential to be happy and do great things.”

If you are right and I am wrong then we stop them from dying this time but they are beyond help and next time they do it in a way that nobody can stop them, but at least we tried.

But if we go your route and just disregard everyone who considers committing suicide then we are letting the ones who want help die. I would rather pity every person who commits suicide or the gesture than turn a deaf ear to people who may want help.

James

And say I love that logic actually. I can totally respect that position, and there is nothing wrong with your well thought out response. I admire people who stand by their convictions. I'm going to bow out now and say you've won this argument.

[James_B_Wads2000]

I can only try to understand your position as it was written. As much as I love to be told I won the argument, I am afraid that you are just letting me win by default. That’s ok, this is probably a better face to face argument anyways. Very well played sir!



James

P.S. I am still waiting for that invitation to go nude hot tubing with you and your wife. I’m still planning on bringing the beer. I have found out that once you’re drunk and naked the world’s problems become easy to solve.

[Cirrus2000]

Just poking my nose in here once more to say count me in the hippie camp, too.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Hey I didn't know DeathCricket lived in China.


James

Suicidal man in China gets push off bridge after blocking traffic for hours, survives

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Saturday, May 23rd 2009, 11:16 AM

BEIJING - Chen Fuchao, a man heavily in debt, had been contemplating suicide on a bridge in southern China for hours when a passer-by came up, shook his hand — and pushed him off the ledge.

Chen fell 26 feet (8 meters) onto a partially inflated emergency air cushion laid out by authorities and survived, suffering spine and elbow injuries, the official Xinhua News Agency said Saturday.

The passer-by, 66-year-old Lai Jiansheng, had been fed up with what he called Chen's "selfish activity," Xinhua said. Traffic around the Haizhu bridge in the city of Guangzhou had been backed up for five hours and police had cordoned off the area.

"I pushed him off because jumpers like Chen are very selfish. Their action violates a lot of public interest," Lai was quoted as saying by Xinhua. "They do not really dare to kill themselves. Instead, they just want to raise the relevant government authorities' attention to their appeals."

Xinhua said Lai was "taken away by police" but did not elaborate.

A police officer who answered the telephone Saturday at a station close to the bridge confirmed the incident and said it was under investigation. He refused to give any other details and hung up.

According to Xinhua, Chen wanted to kill himself because he had accrued 2 million yuan ($290,000) in debt from a failed construction project.

On Thursday, he made his way to the Haizhu bridge, where 11 other people have tried to take their lives since April.

Lai volunteered to talk Chen down but was turned away by police, Xinhua said. Lai then broke through the cordon, climbed to where Chen sat, greeted him with a handshake, then pushed.

Photos in the Beijing Morning Post showed Lai, shoeless and in a T-shirt, saluting after Chen fell.

The paper said Lai was released on bail Friday but did not give any details. It said he had been on medication for "a mental illness" for decades and had been on his way to a hospital for his pills.

Chen was recovering in the hospital, Xinhua said

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w...ours_surv.html

[Don]

26 feet doesn't sound nearly far enough for suicide. Would suck to feel so miserable about life that you want to end it and then only end up making it worse by injuring yourself.

[Deathcricket]

If only this happened in Japan, there would be a video we could watch.



Edit: Wait, I suspect this story is a fake. Don't they have snipers in China who can keep traffic moving along?

[James_B_Wads2000]

If only this happened in Japan, there would be a video we could watch.



Edit: Wait, I suspect this story is a fake. Don't they have snipers in China who can keep traffic moving along?

As if you didn't know...








James

[Don]

Thanks for the vid!

[Deathcricket]

Great video!

Sniper at 1 hour instead of pusher at 5 hours would have been better though. I bet a lot of those people stuck in traffic missed dinner and family time.

Edit: After reading the comments on youtube, I have to also ask.. WHERE'S KEYBOARD CAT WHEN YOU NEED HIM?