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Thread: Carabiner or Knot Block???????
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08-25-2008, 02:41 PM #21Originally Posted by oldno7
Jordan
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08-25-2008 02:41 PM # ADS
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08-31-2008, 03:11 PM #22
In addition to the preference issue - a large part of the preference can be dictated by the choice of rappel device.
Two people in my group have grown to love the Petzl Pirana because of the simple fact that you never take it off the biner so you never risk dropping it down and being forced to use a less-attractive means to lower yourself (well, in my case, I always carry a backup Pirana)
Although you can kind of do a double-strand rap on a Pirana - it doesn't work very well.
So, since we prefer to use Piranas, we prefer to go single strand and therefore we use 'biner blocks extensively. I find it makes rope management a lot easier.
As far as the safety factor is concerned - you can back up your block like Tom mentioned and only have the last guy be truly going on the block - so people can go double if they so choose.
By using blocks frequently everyone I go with regularly is very skilled at rigging them, and has a habit of double / triple-checking that they are on the correct side of the block before unclipping from the anchors and beginning their rappel.
As far as knot blocks go... I can make two loops in a rope, put them together the right way, and clip a locking biner through them and have a clove-hitch biner block in less than two seconds - so I can't see when I would want to spend the time tying a knot to make a block. It takes longer, doesn't seem as secure, and I would imagine could be a real PITA to get out of the rope after you pull it.-----
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09-01-2008, 07:24 AM #23Originally Posted by Ryebrye
Pirana double strand: works with 8mm rope, but if you are using bigger ropes than that, there does not tend to be much room.
Tom
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01-19-2011, 07:16 PM #24
Bump - just 'cause I'm bored.
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01-20-2011, 07:06 AM #25
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01-20-2011, 07:38 AM #26
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01-20-2011, 08:55 AM #27
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01-20-2011, 10:02 AM #28
Really really bored, so for the majority of rappels are most of you using a biner block, knot block, releasable or going double strand?
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01-20-2011, 10:49 AM #29
With large group, I try to go mostly Stone Knot. Teach it to everyone at the first rap, have every person setting up raps.
In small groups, generally a mix of Stones, biner blocks and just going double.
Class C (for real) raps: going for the munter-mule releasable.
Tom
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01-20-2011, 11:36 AM #30
Standard CP Canyoneering
meaning I'm with a group of competent canyoneers
50% double strand
50% biner block
The reason for the 50% biner block is because we often use a 6mm pull cord.
Guide Mode CP Canyoneering
meaning I'm with noob's, children or anyone I think might have problems.
90% top rope belay
10% releasable figure 8 or munter-mule.
A few years ago 80% of my canyoneering was with highly skilled canyoneers and I was seldom in Guide Mode. But now days probably 80% of my time is now spent in Guide Mode as my kids and their friends have reached the age where they usually want to tag along. There is almost always at least one noob in the group these days. And my sexy wife is a self described 'perpetual noob', so I'm always in Guide Mode with her. I think she really just does that to make me feel manly.
A lot of what equipment I carry and what techniques I use are based on who I'm canyoneering with and what they feel comfortable with.
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07-31-2011, 08:26 AM #31
(bump, because despite Bo's best efforts it was a good discussion).
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07-31-2011, 10:32 AM #32
For the dumb people like me who didn't know what a Munter Mule was until I just Googled it, I found this cool site that I thought did a good job of explaining how to tie it and what it's used for.
http://www.animatedknots.com/muntermule/index.php--Cliff
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07-31-2011, 11:46 AM #33
Great information here, thanks for reviving this thread :)
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07-31-2011, 01:28 PM #34
Critique of the knot linked above:
1. The finishing tie-off is incorrect; it should be a overhand knot.
2. Ideally, the load strand would be on the spine side of the carabiner.
See here for a correctly tied munter mule: http://goo.gl/RufG6
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07-31-2011, 03:18 PM #35
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