Subway Conditions?

[DWayne27]

Does anyone know how all the rain and flooding is affecting the subway? I have never done it before and might have a chance this weekend. Just wondering how much water is usually in there, specifically right now, and if there are long full on swimmers or just chest deep wading or what...

[Iceaxe]

The Subway never changes much and always has water because it's spring fed.

Two short swims and a bunch of wading from ankle to chest deep is the standard.

[DWayne27]

thanks for the info. how many route options are there that end up in the subway? some friends got permits for saturday and said the route we are gonna do is more than the standard subway, but isnt das boot. they say it starts outside the park. any input on these routes or what they are like?

[Iceaxe]

Ask your friends where they are buying their dope from..... must be some good stuff.

All drainages feeding Left Fork originate inside the park.... if my map is correct....



If they are skipping Das Boot... the only other descent entrance I know of is the direct down Russell Gulch, and it's inside the park.

[trackrunner]

All drainages feeding Left Fork originate inside the park.... if my map is correct....

Yeah, looking at my map it's the same. Ice maybe we both have bad maps.

The standard route is the Northgate Peaks trail to along the rim of Russel Gulch to the left fork.

Russel Gulch is another option of 3 rappels @ 100ft each.

Das Boot & Upper Left Fork are two other ways.

[DWayne27]

so they werent sure were the other drainage was. lots of confusion i think. i have never done it so am i sure i am sounding like a noob. they say we are going down wild cat canyon and then in to the subway?

[DWayne27]

looks like that is just the standard route?

[Iceaxe]

No... sounds like you are doing the FULL Upper Left Fork which inculdes Das Boot... but some still call the full meal deal Das Boot.... It will be a long day. Wildcat is scratchy.

[trackrunner]

so they werent sure were the other drainage was. lots of confusion i think. i have never done it so am i sure i am sounding like a noob. they say we are going down wild cat canyon and then in to the subway?

looks like that is just the standard route?

Standard Subway route is Wildcat Canyon Trail to Northgate Peaks Trail, to along the rim of Russel Gulch into Left Fork.

"Strait up Wildcat Canyon desend" is the FULL Left Fork.

Edit: Ice keeps beating me in the post war. We both are replying at the same time.

[Iceaxe]

Strait up "Wildcat Canyon" is the FULL Left Fork.

You mean DOWN Wildcat Canyon is the full meal deal....

Or... maybe you guys are using the same map?

[Iceaxe]

Ice keeps beating me in the post war. We both are replying at the same time.

Just repackage the Kool-Aid as "Country Time", but add the "New and Improved!" label.

[DWayne27]

so- wild cat canyon is the same route as das boot?

[trackrunner]

Strait up "Wildcat Canyon" is the FULL Left Fork.

You mean DOWN Wildcat Canyon is the full meal deal....

I meant "strait up" as slang. Like Dude doing Wildcat Canyon and only being prepared for the Subway will result in an epic underprepaird TR.

Good call.

[trackrunner]

so- wild cat canyon is the same route as das boot?

No, Wild Cat Canyon is even before Das Boot, it's Upper Upper Upper Left Fork.

Edit: Post before Ice

[trackrunner]

Sounds like you guys need some acurate beta

http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/subway.php
http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/boot.htm

http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/boot.htm

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zio...ark-subway.htm
http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-das-boot.htm

Read the Wildcat Canyon Section here about the Full Left Fork
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/right.htm

[DWayne27]

yeah- i have been looking at all those sites and route descriptions. i think they get their info from a kelsey book. Sorry for all the questions- i apprecaite the response.

No, Wild Cat Canyon is even before Das Boot, it's Upper Upper Upper Left Fork.

so- does the wild cat canyon route inlude das boot + more, or is it something different?

[trackrunner]

yeah- i have been looking at all those sites and route descriptions. i think they get their info from a kelsey book. Sorry for all the questions- i apprecaite the response.

No, Wild Cat Canyon is even before Das Boot, it's Upper Upper Upper Left Fork.

so- does the wild cat canyon route inlude das boot + more, or is it something different?

Yes its Das Boot and more.

This thread talks about the Full Left Fork. It started out as Das Boot but turned into the the "Full Left Fork" thread.
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12782

this is about Full Right Fork, but the "Wildcat Canyon" section applies to Full Left Fork.
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/right.htm

[shaggy125]

start really early, it's a super long day, many hours longer than the standard subway route. The Left Fork of North Creek is one long drainage. One short section of it is called the subway, another short section, above the subway, is called Das Boot. If you do the FULL drainage, you start where Wildcat Canyon comes into the drainage, do some upper narrows, a long but more open section with lots of swims, then a lower narrows (the Das Boot section) then you hit the Subway. One drainage, different names for different sections of the drainage. As I said before, it's a super long day, emergency bivy gear would be a good idea to have just in case, especially if you start late and if it's full you will be swimming more than walking in the upper sections so be prepared. Some of the coldest water I've encountered canyoneering has been in the upper Left Fork, 90 degrees in the land above and we could see our breath at the bottom of the canyon... brrrrrr... I still shiver thinking about it.

[DWayne27]

so what about the russel gulch option? from the climb-utah beta it looks like that adds to the hike with a few more rappels and spices it up a little bit. does it add much water/swimming? more rappels would be fantastic, but we are trying to keep the cold water to a minimum as we dont have wet suits

[shaggy125]

I personally wouldn't do the upper section without wetsuits. You could get lucky and have it be dry, but if it's full and cold... could be bad. The upper section of the Left Fork is beautiful and lots of fun with proper cold water protection but has only a few very short awkward rappels, Russel Gulch has longer and more exciting raps and would be more fun for someone who likes to rappel and doesn't have wetsuits.