Canyon Ratings & Spry Canyon 7-8-08

[canyonguru]

My budy and i tackled Spry canyon yesterday for the first time for both of us. I would have to say that i think spry is a little bit harder than a class 3 canyon and since that Spry flashed on sunday everything was chuck full of water and there was a little bit of quick sand in some places. We got trashed pretty good and it took us about 7.5 hours to complete. most of the anchors are hard to find and there are two raps that are multy raps. If you haven't done this canyon before make sure that you check the next rap to see if you have to do them together. Almost all the pulls are sketchy, just about every rap had really bad rope burns in the rock. All in all i am not sure if i would do Spry agian unless someone wanted me to take them down it. for two people we carried a 200ft rope and a 135ft rope and it worked out pretty well. so if you want to do spry this summer and not get fried by the sun do it soon before all the water is got. but i would have to say that the multiple raps twards the end of the canyon was for sure the high light of the trip you drop so much altitude at the end of Spry. so good luck if any of you head that way.

[trackrunner]

I would have to say that i think spry is a little bit harder than a class 3 canyon

Explain

Class 3 does not have to equal easy.

Rating from ACA site http://www.canyoneering.net/content/...?categoryid=23

3 Intermediate Canyoneering
Exposed technical climbing. Down-climbing could be difficult and dangerous; most people will rappel instead. Rope required for belays and single-pitch rappels. Obvious natural or fixed anchors. Retreat up canyon will require ascending fixed ropes. Basic pothole escape techniques (i.e. partner assist, counter-weights) may also be required. See route description for more information.

4 Advanced Canyoneering
Route may involve any combination of the following: 1) difficult and exposed free climbing and/or down-climbing, 2) climbing using direct aid, 3) multi-pitch rappels, 4) complex rope work (i.e. guided rappels, deviations, rebelays), 5) obscure or indistinct natural anchors, 6) advanced problem-solving and anchor-building skills. See route description for more information.

[Jaxx]

Spry was one of my favorites so far. What did you find difficult in the canyon to make it a 4?

[canyonguru]

well i wouldn't say it is a 4 and i know the rating system very well. comparable to other class 3 canyons i would say it is high on the list. the canyon had considerable debri in it from the flash on sunday and i believe we were the first group down. in one of the RD that i read it said that there was a log anchor above your head for one of the raps which i never saw. i am asuming if that RD was correct then that anchor is gone now.

This is a cut out of chris brennens write up

Just a few yards downstream the watercourse turns sharp right and you rappel down a narrow slot using a webbing anchor around an overhead chockstone. It is a 70ft drop into a small pothole/ledge, the exit from which is a 45ft rappel using a log across the narrow slot exit as the anchor.
That anchor is gone now. the pothole was complely full of water and it is a short swim for anyone under 6 foot(not me) over to the pothole ledge where we used our 200ft rope off of the first rap to finish the las 45ft.

[oldno7]

I'm guessing you rapped into the pool(pothole) and pulled your rope?
really don't see a 4 rating anywhere.

[Sombeech]

Welcome to the site by the way.

[trackrunner]

oops should have posted this. It is the new/proposed ACA rating system also
http://www.canyoneering.net/content/...categoryid=136



canyonguru got pictures?

[canyonguru]

no we didn't pull the ropes to soon and no its not a 4 canyon. just saying that its harder than any other 3 canyons i have done before. a good example of the new rating system. sorry no pics forgot the digi at home. i was a little worried about the water to bring a camera.

[tanya]

Spry has some tight sqeezes and some tougher rope work. How did you do rappel into the water?

Here is a link to my last trip through Spry. We went with a biology group of kids that were cute and fun.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopi...=12001&start=0

This is the rappel I am talking about? I assume you just went straight down though...

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopi...r=asc&start=15


Welcome to the group!

Yeah... There are class 3's and there are class 3's!!!!!! ;) -- and it can change with the weather, time of year, PMS, and other factors.


In Zion here is a quick glance at how Bo and Rank the canyons. They are listed from what we think of as easiest to hardest taking into consideration, rope work, how hard it is for me to keep up with Bo, and other odd things --- the ACA ratings are on there too. I am not changing them until they are no longer proposed but the real deal.
http://www.zionnational-park.com/zio...nyoneering.htm

[Iceaxe]

Welcome to the forum Canyonguru.

If you think Zion has some hard 3's you are going to love some of the ones in North Wash.....

As for the "new ACA rating system", it's as flawed as the old one. I hope they trash can the idea as it will just make a giant mess of things if they change. While the current system is flawed at least everyone who sprays beta is using the same system.... this will not happen if they change the way they rate canyons. Having everyone using the same system is a major plus in my book, the new system would have to be MUCH better (and it's not) to make the change a positive...

[ratagonia]

Welcome to the forum Canyonguru.

If you think Zion has some hard 3's you are going to love some of the ones in North Wash.....

As for the "new ACA rating system", it's as flawed as the old one. I hope they trash can the idea as it will just make a giant mess of things if they change. While the current system is flawed at least everyone who sprays beta is using the same system.... this will not happen if they change the way they rate canyons. Having everyone using the same system is a major plus in my book, the new system would have to be MUCH better (and it's not) to make the change a positive...

I concur, Dr. Ice.

Two of the largest beta-providers (Ice and Moi) have ZERO buy-in to the revised system. (Rich moving forward with it reminds me of a quote I heard recently: "Can open, worms everywhere!").

Tom

[ratagonia]

My buddy and I tackled Spry canyon yesterday for the first time for both of us. I would have to say that I think Spry is a little bit harder than a class 3 canyon and since that Spry flashed on sunday everything was chock full of water and there was a little bit of quicksand in some places. We got trashed pretty good and it took us about 7.5 hours to complete. most of the anchors are hard to find and there are two raps that are multi raps. If you haven't done this canyon before make sure that you check the next rap to see if you have to do them together.

Almost all the pulls are sketchy, just about every rap had really bad rope burns in the rock. All in all i am not sure if i would do Spry agian unless someone wanted me to take them down it. for two people we carried a 200ft rope and a 135ft rope and it worked out pretty well. so if you want to do spry this summer and not get fried by the sun do it soon before all the water is got. but i would have to say that the multiple raps towards the end of the canyon was for sure the highlight of the trip you drop so much altitude at the end of Spry. so good luck if any of you head that way.

Ha ha. Yes, the rating "3" covers a lot of ground.

"Multy" or "Multi" raps - the more technical term is multi-stage rappels.

The one under the block is usually done as a multi-stage - it is unfortunate that Chris found a log there on his descent and made it two raps (and mentioned this). There was recently a nice deadman built there by two people who pulled their rope too soon - after sending one person down off a meat belay, they pulled some logs and rocks up from below. Be careful where you get your information from, and please read page 6 of my Zion book. The most important line in there is: "Where reality and this book (or Chris's beta) disagree, make decisions based on reality".

The second multi-stage rap (just after) can be done as a throw-to-guided-rappel to stay dry; and the second part of it is not too hard of a downclimb.

Sounds like Spry is the first "real canyon" you have done. Yup, not everything is absolutely straightforward, even though almost every drop is bolted. Welcome to the real (canyon) world, canyon-grasshopper.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

I concur, Dr. Ice.

Two of the largest beta-providers (Ice and Moi) have ZERO buy-in to the revised system. (Rich moving forward with it reminds me of a quote I heard recently: "Can open, worms everywhere!").

Worms everywhere.....

FWIW: Mr. Kelsey's new tech book is coming out next month and also uses the "old" rating system.....

I do know that Tom, MK and myself have all modified the original ACA rankings slightly to take into account the difficult mae-west type stuff...

YMMV

[canyonguru]

mystery,pine creek,keyhole,echo,subway,orderville,spry, is my list. so yes compared to you guys i am for sure a grasshopper. but i am working my way up. and yes tom it is very important where i get my info from. i have your book and have read it quite a bit. thanks for all the coments guys.

[tanya]

mystery,pine creek,keyhole,echo,subway,orderville,spry, is my list. so yes compared to you guys i am for sure a grasshopper. but i am working my way up. and yes tom it is very important where i get my info from. i have your book and have read it quite a bit. thanks for all the coments guys.

Shane has a canyoneering book out too that has been out for quite some time. I like to read both men's personality when it comes to how they explain things.

http://www.cafepress.com/climbutah

[ratagonia]

mystery,pine creek,keyhole,echo,subway,orderville,spry, is my list. so yes compared to you guys i am for sure a grasshopper. but i am working my way up. and yes tom it is very important where i get my info from. i have your book and have read it quite a bit. thanks for all the coments guys.

And you bring forth one of the problems with a Zion-centric canyoneering career - most canyons in Zion are VERY straightforward, and not at all representative of canyons elsewhere in Utah. Even the "easy" canyons elsewhere have a lots more "sports-action" than Zion easy classics.

Thus the Iceman commenteth on North Wash. Lots of sports-action there, often catches people by surprise their first time.

Beware, and be aware.

(And, to be fair, my book provides very little information about Spry - that's how you know it is a 'harder' canyon).

Tom

[ratagonia]

Spry has some tight sqeezes and some tougher rope work. How did you do rappel into the water?

Perhaps Mr. Heaps would like to learn some of the "new tricks", such as setting the rope length, so rappellers just rap off the end of the rope and swim away.

In that under-the-rock rap, there is a small perch that can be had at a foot above the water, where one can disconnect.

But, with me, fair maiden, a guided rappel would be set up to keep fair maidens out of the water (should the water be of an inequitable temperature)...

Tom

[tanya]

Perhaps Mr. Heaps would like to learn some of the "new tricks", such as setting the rope length, so rappellers just rap off the end of the rope and swim away.

He does that and it freaks me out when I run out of rope!!!!

But, with me, fair maiden, a guided rappel would be set up to keep fair maidens out of the water (should the water be of an inequitable temperature)...

Tom

I like that 'fair maiden' part. You are sweet when you loosen up.

[trackrunner]

Perhaps Mr. Heaps would like to learn some of the "new tricks", such as setting the rope length, so rappellers just rap off the end of the rope and swim away.

He does that and it freaks me out when I run out of rope!!!!

Like in this picture

[nat]

Welcome to the forum Canyonguru.

If you think Zion has some hard 3's you are going to love some of the ones in North Wash.....

As for the "new ACA rating system", it's as flawed as the old one. I hope they trash can the idea as it will just make a giant mess of things if they change. While the current system is flawed at least everyone who sprays beta is using the same system.... this will not happen if they change the way they rate canyons. Having everyone using the same system is a major plus in my book, the new system would have to be MUCH better (and it's not) to make the change a positive...

I concur, Dr. Ice.

Two of the largest beta-providers (Ice and Moi) have ZERO buy-in to the revised system. (Rich moving forward with it reminds me of a quote I heard recently: "Can open, worms everywhere!").

Tom

Yeah, you guys are just lazy. You might have to go and change all your ratings!

Hey, I have an idea. Perhaps you and Shane think it was a bad idea to expand the old climbing rating system (class 1 thru 6) to differnetiate between different class 5 routes. Why don't we just go back to the old system, and every route from 5.0 to 5.15 would simply be "class 5". For details, just look at the route description.

Nat