Questions from a Novice

[Jer53621]

I am going down Friday morning to hike Subway with 3 other rookies and I have a few questions. Do we need a rope for repelling or is it just a handline? What kind of map should I bring, I found one on Climb-Utah.com will that be sufficent? We only have one car, how hard will it be to get a ride to the trailhead if we park at the exit around 10:30 or 11:00? I would also appreciate any advice anyone has for a Novice. Thanks a bunch

[Iceaxe]

Yes, you will need a 60' rope.

Athletic individuals will be able to handline and not need a rappel. Rappelling gear helps if you know how to use it or are not athletic.

Hitching a ride between closely spaced trailheads is popular. A large and easy to read sign stating "Next Trailhead" really speeds this process up. If you are hitching for the Subway its good to know that hitching up in the morning and down in the afternoon offers the best results.

The map on Climb-Utah.com along with the route description should be sufficient.... so long as you know how to read a map and follow directions.

A GPS works in this canyon to identify all important route junctions and the exit trail, if you have access to one I'd pack it along if you know how to use it.

Subway
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm

[Iceaxe]

how hard will it be to get a ride to the trailhead if we park at the exit around 10:30 or 11:00?

I'd also consider getting an earlier start..... noob's will probably not make it out by dark if hitching from the lower TH at 11 am.

[Sombeech]

We just hand lined it down... but that cold water will hurt your hands. At least bring gloves with your rope.

I was surprised at how long it took us to so Subway. 7 hours. Of course, we were taking a ton of pictures and having a good time, but if this is your first time, you'll probably do the same.

We went without wetsuits too, but you may consider some. I can take the cold pretty well, but it's a comfort issue.

[Felicia]

If you get an early start, it will not be hot-hot on the walk in. We always have a fleece and wool hat in a dry bag in case you get cold in the canyon. It usually takes 7 to 9 hours of fun!

[trackrunner]

IMO it is better to take gear realizing that you have the ability to downclimb handline down then to not take it and need it. It is not too dificult of a canyon. But make sure you are approaching correctly along Russel Gulch not in. You should not handline 100ft drop offs in Russel Gulch. You'll need gear there.

Advice from Tom Jones "Zion Canyoneering" It is easier to get a lift by parking a car at the exit and hitching to the trail head when you smell nice and clean early in the morning then be dirty and sweaty late at night. You'll have a better chance at getting a lift if you start early in the day then later in the day because there will be more traffic in the morning going up then the evening.

[Jer53621]

Thanks for all the great advice. We are planning on leaving SLC at 5am (work won't permit a Thurs-night departure) should we try to get out earlier than that? Thanks ya'll.

[nat]

Thanks for all the great advice. We are planning on leaving SLC at 5am (work won't permit a Thurs-night departure) should we try to get out earlier than that? Thanks ya'll.

I agree with Shane that an earlier start would be wise. One other recommendation: Drop everyone off at the upper/entry trailhead then have one person drive the car down to the exit trailhead. It will be easier for one person to get a ride back up, than for four of you.

Nat

[Iceaxe]

I was surprised at how long it took us to so Subway. 7 hours.

Beech you were with someone who knew where they were going and how to defeat all the obstacles.... problem with noob's is they WILL GET LOST. If nothing else noob's will waste time making sure they do not get lost. It's amazing how much time a slight error in navigation can eat up... also, noob's will waste a lot of time trying to figure out the best way past each obstacle.

If you must do the late start make sure everyone is packing a headlamp and toss a few extra power bars in the backpack in case you have to sit somewhere through the night...

YMMV....

[moab mark]

I think what Ice is trying to say is 4:00 am would probably be a better time to leave salt lake. Just do not miss the take out, that can really suck.
Last week we took two groups of 10 scouts through and handline all of them without any problems. If you haven't picked up your permit, pick it up at kolob on your way past.
Mark

[gootwan]

It seems the classic first time Subway mistake is to end up accidentally descending Russell Gulch toward the Left Fork. I did this on my first trip, so did my brother on his first trip. Take whatever route finding precautions you can to avoid this cuz it takes up a huge chunk of valuable time to reverse course and find the correct way.

Russell does lead to the Subway but you need at least 200ft of rope and rappelling gear (and skills) to safely descend.

Jordan

[gootwan]

... oh yeah, and missing the exit trail is definately a common first time error as well.

[trackrunner]

It seems the classic first time Subway mistake is to end up accidentally descending Russell Gulch toward the Left Fork. I did this on my first trip, so did my brother on his first trip. Take whatever route finding precautions you can to avoid this cuz it takes up a huge chunk of valuable time to reverse course and find the correct way.

Russell does lead to the Subway but you need at least 200ft of rope and rappelling gear (and skills) to safely descend.

Jordan

oh yeah, and missing the exit trail is definately a common first time error as well.

When I did it for the first time this spring I worried about making those common mistakes myself. I followed Tom Jones beta and found it to be spot on. The only time time I didn't follow it was the only time I got in trouble. (Key Hole falls was flashing at the time and the anchors were too dangerous to reach and death to down climb. After getting frustrated for a while I discovered the arch can be down climbed. If I would have poped out the beta I would have learned this and a bypass at another problem earlier).

to the emperor

[ratagonia]

Early = 7 am at the trailhead. It is plenty hot out down here these days. Later than that - you're on your own...

Map: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/intro/mapcenter.php

If you have an 11 x 17 printer, download the subway map from above and print a couple of copies.

Let's assume you are all strong, athletic and lucky. Arrive earlier. You can always take a nap when you are IN the canyon. Getting a ride up at 11 am could be difficult - I don't know, I've never tried it. Most everyone driving the road knows the score and picks people up (at the appropriate time, in the early morning).

The best description is most likely in the book, and reproduced on the website: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/subway.php

I have not had good luck downclimbing, especially at the Keyhole falls. I have sprained my ankle there TWICE, so now I rappel at least that drop. How do I say this nicely - uh, - if you are not an experienced climber, you have little to no basis to determine whether you are up for handlining rather than rappelling the drops. Only a couple people each year mess up the handline and fall, breaking bones and spending an extra day on the adventure. If you are lucky (see above), it will not be you. If you are unlucky, you might get to meet Bo (uh, I mean, at LEAST you will get to meet Bo) or perhaps just Ray and Cody, hard to say, depends on who is on call. I am not a fan of suggesting to people WE don't know that they can just handline it. Heck, you could be an 80 yearold near cripple for all we know...

You got helmets? Wear helmets. Watersport, bike, climbing, whatever! While breaking your leg will be really uncomfortable for a fairly short period of time, breaking your head open would be less fun. A lot less.

Tom

[Jer53621]

How do I say this nicely - uh, - if you are not an experienced climber, you have little to no basis to determine whether you are up for handlining rather than rappelling the drops.

Tom

Does this mean we are foolish to try this as rookies, would we be better served starting at the left fork trailhead and climbing up? Should we be encouraged or discouraged by your cautious tone. Thanks so much for the thoughtful post.

Jeremy

[Sombeech]

I was surprised at how long it took us to so Subway. 7 hours.

Beech you were with someone who knew where they were going and how to defeat all the obstacles

Definitely. I had the wrong impression all around. We would have been screwed without Bo.

[ratagonia]

How do I say this nicely - uh, - if you are not an experienced climber, you have little to no basis to determine whether you are up for handlining rather than rappelling the drops.

Tom

Does this mean we are foolish to try this as rookies, would we be better served starting at the left fork trailhead and climbing up? Should we be encouraged or discouraged by your cautious tone. Thanks so much for the thoughtful post.

Jeremy

You should be cautioned.

It depends on who you are, which none of us know. Hopefully you do. Fast strong resourceful and lucky? Can read a map? Good in the heat? Etc. Is there someone in your group that knows how to rappel? Have a 60' piece of rope? A harness or two, and a rappel device? Etc. etc.

Call the Kolob Visitor Center and find out when they open. Be there, no matter how early you have to start. Do a good job on it, and don't get hurt. It will be wonderful!!

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Definitely. I had the wrong impression all around. We would have been screwed without Bo.

Didn't mean to castrate ya.... just warning that doing the route in 7 hours may or may not happen if no one in the group has done it before.

[Iceaxe]

I think Tom is being overly cautious... dozen of exerianced hikers do the route every day with no tech skills.... even a lot of inexperianced hikers mange to do the route and survive. When I first did the Subway I was just a strong youth with intermedate backcountry skills. We did the route with 30' of webbing, we had tie knots in the webbing every foot.

That there are a couple rescues in the Subway each year is to be expected, with 50 people per day that's a lot of people in a the backcountry, which is not nearly as safe as Disneyland....

My only word of caution.... don't climb down anything you can not climb back up until you are 100% positive you are in the Subway. Get an early start, carry plenty of water....

Have a fun trip.... YMMV....

[Brian in SLC]

My opinion? If you're driving from SLC leaving at 5am, then you should just hike up from the bottom. You'd be lucky to start by 11am, and, by the time you configure a car shuttle (or not) and pack up, it'll be well past noon. Way too late to start this type of hike. And, you'll already be tired from an early start from SLC.

By hiking in from the bottom, you dial the egress on the front end, so, when you come back with a little more time, you'll have the exit all sussed out and won't be fishin' around in the dark wondering where the trailhead is. Its nice to wait until later in the day in the summer heat to come back up that trail, but, not waiting so long as to attempt it in the dark.

I hiked from the bottom 2 or 3 times before I did the top down (across Russel Gulch) entry. That made the trip less stressful.

When we did the top down trip, we were fairly experienced as climbers so carrying a minimal amount of gear made sense for us, but, I was really surprised at how little gear and saavy the other folks I saw bumbling around in there had. Its no wonder to me that folks get hurt in there. Doesn't matter if its to be expected due to the number of folks that do it, it happens partly because folks get in over their heads very easily on this type of gig. You're not a number. Gettin' hurt, well, it hurts. And it puts other folks at risk too.

Its easy to miss the easy entry into the canyon. So, unless you're saavy on how to rappel, set up anchors, etc, then either try to go with more time, earlier, or with someone who has done the route and can manage the technical stuff a bit more. Heck, like someone on this site for instance.

The best part of the "subway" is the subway (duh!). You see all that stuff from the bottom up, so, its not that big a deal to do the hike from the bottom instead of the top. And, you can go up as far as you like from the bottom too, for bonus points and as you feel comfortable with.

Good luck. Tell us how it goes, either way. And, bring a headlight and extra food. A forced bivy this time of year is no biggie as the temp's are pretty warm at night. Sometimes its much better to set than to try to push through in the dark. Also, make sure you top your water off when you can. Your biggest risk might be the heat and getting dehydrated.

-Brian in SLC