smiling cricket

[Scott P]

Very nice. The Waterpocket Fold is awesome.

[goofball]

hi jason,

finger waggin'? no, not the intentions of my post ... i think it's no kidding that you received a fair share

i read your report and voiced worries that were running through my head while reading your TR, which only reveals a little of your exploration and experience. i was naturally interested in understanding more.

and as before the only way to know is to go unless you can see all from the rim and have 100% certainty of obstacles.

true, but there are many ways of "going" ... no?

that was jason dry humor tongue in cheek. and yeah, nk got me some shit.

yep, there's many ways of going, but the one that really gets me going is actually going. personality defect i suspect. excitement junkie in that way. unlike climbing a wall it is not all spread out before me. it twists and turns and changes and is always a surprise. a knife edge between fear and excitement, one driving the other and vice versa. and i get just as much out of it after the fact. someteimes during, all i want is out, and when does it end and crap why am i knocking myself out doing this. but the ebb and flow of the senses is like a narcotic. best one i've ever known. and its legal ! whether its some established beta'd route or not don't matter. its the unknown and the act of self discovery.

and experience wise, i got out a LOT when we lived in bluff, not so much the last 2 years in slc, and am able to get out a lot here now again. but before bluff i knew nothing of canyoneering. but my approach to everything is just because i don't know how to do it yet doesn't mean its hard. so i go. and i hate to start at the bottom, the fun stuff is up top. thats where the people around me were and i liked the view.

NAT -

seagorn thinks it was only about 30' diameter, but i am pretty sure it was near 50' deep. honestly, i am not good w/ judging distances, so 50 may be high. but it was more than 30' no doubt. maybe it was only 40' deep. to me, that is still deep. i stand in my room and look thru the doorway to approximate the distances and perspectives, and the 20' to the far wall seems close compared to the far lip of that pothole. but i know a sure way you could find out for certain !

he thought the water was too deep to stand in, and that it was undercut some at the very bottom. i honestly could not see thru the water enough to make any judgement call on its ultimate depth or shape. what i saw was a wall of near vertical, but slight outward slope rising from the water line. if footing were sure to start the pecking out i am certain it would only be a matter of time. if footing ain't sure, then some support would be needed. the sandstone can be pecked w/ a drill bit just deep enough for a talon pretty quick, but as you knwo better than i you still have to have some solid footing. and if floating then exposure and exhaustion could creep up. and if it is undercut at its very bottom ? how undercut it is will determine how hard the process will be i guess. build a ramp or cairn to gain some height if possible if that is the case. or stack packs. or human triangle, or ???

[AJ]

I'm always game for an exploration; and/or if you want to run that canyon again (or the others in the area.) Sounds like a blast!

Take care,
A.J.

[nat]

NAT -

seagorn thinks it was only about 30' diameter, but i am pretty sure it was near 50' deep.

he thought the water was too deep to stand in, and that it was undercut some at the very bottom.

Jason, thanks for the detailed response. I'll bet those bolts on that traverse were a real beautiful sight to see!

Nat

[FOX]

whether its some established beta'd route or not don't matter. its the unknown and the act of self discovery.

Amen to that one brother!

[trackrunner]

whether its some established beta'd route or not don't matter. its the unknown and the act of self discovery.

Amen to that one brother!

X 2

[shaggy125]

I'd be interested in a trip down there this fall or next spring (I'll be in Alaska from 9/25 - 10/14 so fall might be tough for me). I was one of the "associates" that did the two canyons next to this one. Nat? AJ? Jason? anyone interested let me know. They are very remote and it is a 10+ mile pack in to set up basecamp so not a trip for everyone.

[nat]

I'd be interested in a trip down there this fall or next spring (I'll be in Alaska from 9/25 - 10/14 so fall might be tough for me). I was one of the "associates" that did the two canyons next to this one. Nat? AJ? Jason? anyone interested let me know. They are very remote and it is a 10+ mile pack in to set up basecamp so not a trip for everyone.

I'm definitely interested. All three sound really great.

Nat

[Iceaxe]

for those who like names and descent history my partner said he has friends or contacts in the allen and turville (sp?) entourages and is gonna ask about these. the bolts were .25" and "star driven" (?) which looked just like a big ass nail to me.

If you come up with the history of these canyons please post it...

If I had to guess... I'd put my money on the Stardryvin bolts belonging to Mike Bogart and/or Dennis Turville.

[CarpeyBiggs]

sick goof. just sick. nice work.

I'd be game to see the fold in October. I should be back on the plateau by Oct 15th.

AJ, don't forget the beer...

[goofball]

for those interested in going thru i am game again sometime. definitley spring or fall ! i'd rather go when cooler and carry a wetsuit than make that hike in the heat. and like shaggy said it is a 10 mile approach, so a whole day in and a whole day out. coming from the lake would cut maybe 4 miles off, but i don't know what those hiking conditions would be like. still would be near a day to hike in and same out, plus the cost of a boat. wanted to do all 3 this time but smiling cricket alone was worth it. and i never mind sharing beta so if you would like some let me know. seagorn marked some approach points in teh gps so that wiould make it a little easier. the approach is tiresome and the fold there is pretty warped. it is not a straight line and it could be easy to pick the wrong line and spend longer than necessary.

[ratagonia]

for those who like names and descent history my partner said he has friends or contacts in the allen and turville (sp?) entourages and is gonna ask about these. the bolts were .25" and "star driven" (?) which looked just like a big ass nail to me.

If you come up with the history of these canyons please post it...

If I had to guess... I'd put my money on the Stardryvin bolts belonging to Mike Bogart and/or Dennis Turville.

Turville seems to have used those 5/16" or 3/8" studs, as we see in Kolob and several other canyons. The two canyons next door had those kind of bolts, with old Leeper and SMC hangers. Star Dryvins I think are someone else's handywork.

Tom

[AJ]

I'd be game; and yes, I'd bring beer for you Carpey...

Would love to hear what you are thinking, and when. For me, the more lead time, the better...

Take care,
A.J.

[shaggy125]

Would love to hear what you are thinking, and when. For me, the more lead time, the better...

A.J.

If I do them this fall it would be anywhere between Oct. 23rd - 29th. Next spring is more likely though. Somewhere between March - May.

[nat]

Would love to hear what you are thinking, and when. For me, the more lead time, the better...

A.J.

If I do them this fall it would be anywhere between Oct. 23rd - 29th. Next spring is more likely though. Somewhere between March - May.

I can do October 23-27th (especially if we can drive down on the eve of the 22nd). In the fall, I teach only Tuesday and Thursday. By the way Eric, what are you doing in Alaska? Canyoneering?

Nat

[shaggy125]

I can drive down the evening of the 22nd, I work the night of the 21st and would just need 4 or 5 hours of sleep on the 22nd. No canyoneering in Alaska, unless Dan finds something for us . I am flying out on Dan's (CarpeyBiggs) last day of driving his tour bus and then taking three weeks to drive around and then home, making stops in the Yukon, Jasper, Banff, Glacier, Yellowstone, etc... Probably mostly just hiking and sightseeing, oh and learning how to take better pictures. Hopefully Dan and I don't hate each other after spending three weeks crammed in the same car together

[nat]

I can drive down the evening of the 22nd, I work the night of the 21st and would just need 4 or 5 hours of sleep on the 22nd. No canyoneering in Alaska, unless Dan finds something for us . I am flying out on Dan's (CarpeyBiggs) last day of driving his tour bus and then taking three weeks to drive around and then home, making stops in the Yukon, Jasper, Banff, Glacier, Yellowstone, etc... Probably mostly just hiking and sightseeing, oh and learning how to take better pictures. Hopefully Dan and I don't hate each other after spending three weeks crammed in the same car together

Sounds like a great trip up north! Except for the $4-$5 per gallon of gasoline. If you and Dan survive three weeks together up there, I'm sure a few days on Halls creek will be OK Let's keep in touch about the dates; sounds like it could work. With an early start hiking on Friday morning, maybe could do Baboon the same day?

Nat

[shaggy125]

Sounds like a great trip up north! Except for the $4-$5 per gallon of gasoline. If you and Dan survive three weeks together up there, I'm sure a few days on Halls creek will be OK Let's keep in touch about the dates; sounds like it could work. With an early start hiking on Friday morning, maybe could do Baboon the same day?

Nat

I think the gas prices are why Carpey is willing to let me come along, we will have three people to split gas, so that should help. I just need to work some overtime and save my pennies. It would be a monster day, plus end of October it will be dark around 7:00, but yea, if we started really early in the morning we could knock out Baboon before dark, it's pretty short and easy (unless something in there changes of course).

[AJ]

I could make that timeframe work. October 30th is my birthday, and I usually get out for some canyons during that timeframe. I could celebrate a week early. ;)

I could drive out the eve/night of 10/21 or 10/22, and could canyoneer through mid-day 27th or 28th (it's a long drive back for me...)

I'm pretty sure I could find one or (very likely) two others to join me as well. (Would like to have 2-3 people total to split drive time and gas.) Let me know.

So, in summary, if you want to make it happen; plan for three of us from Colorado...

Take care,
A.J.

[abirken]

I could make that timeframe work. October 30th is my birthday, and I usually get out for some canyons during that timeframe. I could celebrate a week early. ;)

I could drive out the eve/night of 10/21 or 10/22, and could canyoneer through mid-day 27th or 28th (it's a long drive back for me...)

I'm pretty sure I could find one or (very likely) two others to join me as well. (Would like to have 2-3 people total to split drive time and gas.) Let me know.

So, in summary, if you want to make it happen; plan for three of us from Colorado...

Take care,
A.J.

I'm in...........I could plan this out definately and would be interested in more then just a couple days. I have to redeem my status as NOOB and step it up a notch.