Narrows?

[price1869]

Anyone ever gone down when the cfs is over 150? I would like to do englestead with some peeps and well . . .

[Scott P]

Unless things have changed, I believe it is illegal to hike down the narrows at flows above 120 CFS. You can still hike up from the bottom, but I think the NPS would consider coming in Englestead and existing the Narrows as going down the Narrows. Maybe someone can correct me if this is incorrect.

[price1869]

no, you're correct.

I'm just wondering how overly cautious they are being. Might not happen at all. Just curious.

[Iceaxe]

no, you're correct.

I'm just wondering how overly cautious they are being. Might not happen at all. Just curious.

The NPS is waaaayyyyy over cautious..... remember, they are also protecting 70 year old ladies.....

[ratagonia]

no, you're correct.

I'm just wondering how overly cautious they are being. Might not happen at all. Just curious.

The NPS is waaaayyyyy over cautious..... remember, they are also protecting 70 year old ladies.....

WORD:

(a)(1)(vii) - The North Fork of the Virgin River above Big Springs is closed when it is flowing in excessof 120 cfs. The North Fork of the Virgin River below Big Springs is closed when the North Fork of the Virgin River is
flowing in excess of 140 cfs.

Kolob Creek is closed when the North Fork of the Virgin River exceeds 120 cfs or Kolob Creek exceeds the following limits:
-Kolob Reservoir to Oak Creek; 5 cfs
-Oak Creek to MIA Route; 10 cfs
-MIA route to North Fork; 15 cfs
-Flow rates for the North Fork of the Virgin River will be determined using the USGS gauge #940550 (North Fork of the Virgin at Springdale).
-Flow rates for Kolob Creek will be determined based on information received from the Washington County Water Conservation District.
-During spring runoff , the level will be determined using the maximum fl ow during the proceeding 24-hour period.
-During periods other than spring runoff the level will be determined using current readings.
-Permits will also not be issued for any canyon hike in the park once a fl ash fl ood warning has been issued by the National Weather Service. Permits will not be issued until 8 hours after the flash flood warning has been lifted. During this period, the Narrows beyond the end of the Riverside Walk is closed to all entry.

Justification: Experience has shown that an average visitor cannot safely traverse the Zion Narrows above Big Spring when flow rates are in excess of 120 cfs.

Experience has also shown that an average visitor can safely traverse the section of the North Fork from Big Springs downstream to the end of the Riverside Walk at slightly higher levels (140 cfs).

When the Washington County Water District releases water from the Kolob Reservoir, a potential for a flash flood can be created in Kolob Creek. Experience has shown that there are upper limits for safe hiking for the average hiker through Kolob Creek.

(end quote of THE WORD)

As Shane points out, the "average visitor" has trouble getting out of their car.

Tom

[ratagonia]

no, you're correct.

I'm just wondering how overly cautious they are being. Might not happen at all. Just curious.

I've done the end of Mystery to the takeout at about 160 cfs, in dry suits.

I had a hard time standing up, and gave it up almost instantly. Having 2 x 200 foot ropes on my back was a big liability. The two girls I was with had a harder time, and one of them missed the takeout, sticking on a rock at the head of the first rapid. I went across and got her.

It depends on your whitewater walking skills. NOW, I would be very comfortable at 160 if I did not have a heavy pack. A floaty drysuit would be a good idea, or plenty of wetsuit. Might stuff some foam in the wetsuit for extra floatation.

But I should point out, that extra layer of table muscles I've accumulated during the last 20 years is good in whitewater. Weight counts, a lot.

Wear a helmet, you'll be fine.

Tom

[Scott Card]

A couple of years ago, we did Englestead and exited down Orderville into the Narrows in about 240ish cfs. What happened is we got the permit and shortly thereafter the canyons were closed due to flash flood warnings. We of course did not know that as we had gone back to our motel room. It rained like crazy that evening and cleared up in the night. When we left for the trail head, well before the back country desk was open, it was dark and the humidity was heavy in the air. We arrived at the trial head at the crack of dawn and started into Englestead. My eye was always to the sky and we were hustling through in case we were turned back at the narrows. Our emergency plan was to reverse Orderville and hike out that nasty hollow if the Narrows was flashing. Yes, potentially long and horrible I know but heck I was young and stupid. Just barely over 40. Anyway, we reached the narrows and it was flowing, shall we say, pretty good. Those who had wet suits suited up. Those who didn't, didn't. I made my way across the Virgin and came back to the mouth of Orderville and figured it was doable for me, the brake peddal of the group. We kept wondering where all the tourists were when we were going down the narrows. Not a soul in sight until we came to the big boulder and swimming hole-jump place. There we saw three or four young-uns who were soon to receive a citation. Those were the only people we saw 'till we rounded the corner after Mystery and saw a crowd standing on the river walk and a ranger giving us the cold stare-down. After he started to read us the riot act we explained that we had no idea the canyon was closed BECAUSE THE BACK COUNTRY DESK WASN'T OPEN WHEN WE STARTED OUR HIKE. He also saw our impressive stack of ropes and gear, he graciously backed off and said something like "I guess you guys are equipped and trained" Fooled him!

Oh wait, what was the question?.... I digress. The answer: At 240ish CFS, walking was difficult down stream but doable. Those who floated had an absolute blast and made good time. Trying to go upstream would have been impossible at that flow and crossing perpendicular to the current was quite tricky. (I only fell once - no walking sticks either)

[UtahAdventureGuide]

You can't do the Narrows over 150 CFS but they let us do the Subway with 1,600 CFS through the North Fork Don't they let you take a raft down over a certain level?

[trackrunner]

You can't do the Narrows over 150 CFS but they let us do the Subway with 1,600 CFS through the North Fork Don't they let you take a raft down over a certain level?

this thread talks about getting a permit to float the narrows
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0

[price1869]

Thanks for the replies, friends.

We had a fairly . . . pinecreek-y weekend. Gas is too expensive, I think that from here on out the canyons will have to wait until wages catch up to petrol $$.

I'll see you at the crags around SLC.

[Scott Card]

Thanks for the replies, friends.

We had a fairly . . . pinecreek-y weekend. Gas is too expensive, I think that from here on out the canyons will have to wait until wages catch up to petrol $$.

I'll see you at the crags around SLC.

Yo, Mister "Lone Wolf" car pool.