first time to S. UT... advice needed

[bryan]

Hey guys,
My wife and I are heading out to southern UT for the first time next week (4/19-26). I've been researching like crazy (this is basically what I do when I'm supposed to be working) but the one thing that's tough to find is early season specific info-- that's where you come in. For background, we're not very experienced hikers but we're in our late twenties, in pretty good shape and willing to try some more strenuous stuff. Our basic plans are 3 nights Zion, 1 night Boulder, 1 night Torrey, and 2 nights Bryce.

Especially with Zion, I'm having trouble figuring out what to do. I spoke with someone about the Narrows, and apparently it's hit or miss right now with the water flow. And I was really excited when I saw photos of the Subway before I learned you need rappelling experience and guides are not allowed. Is the bottoms-up hike worth it if you've only got three days? I read that the scenery isn't quite so amazing as the top-down.

Near Boulder, I was trying to decide between Calf Creek Falls and Spooky Gulch and the stuff off Hole In the Rock Rd

[Alex]

Subway is permitted, so you have to camp the visitor center in early hours to get a permit. If you are going during a week it shouldn't be a problem. You really don't need to have canyoneering skills, there are a couple of handline spots where you can easily downclimb or bring a 40 foot rope with you.

It's very wise to rent the canyoneering shoes and wet suit for subway, you will get very wet and the water is very cold now. You can rent everything from Springdale shop, I forgot the name of it, it's by Pizza place, can't miss it. The shoes will be a life saver for you. (5.10 canyoneers)

You can use the same outfit for Narrows, ask the ranger for the flow on a specific day, if you can make it through Subway, you will easily make it through narrows, it's just a pleasant hike with a couple of deep spots.

Other hikes to consider (none technical) in Zion: Angel's Landing, Overlook point and Emerald Pools.

[Win]

I hope by now you've discovered Tanya and Bo's site, a good reference for this area:

www.zionnational-park.com

For Bryce I would suggest the Fairyland Loop or go in the Queens Garden and connect to the Peekaboo Loop coming out at Navajo. Both are good "in the canyon" hikes.

If you're going down Hole in the Rock make sure to spend some time in the Devil's Garden, you'll pass right by it.

In Zion make sure you do Angel's Landing and Observation Pt. Both are classic Zion hikes. Start early! Check at Zion Adventure for Narrows info, water flow is a bit high and it will be cold. They'll rent you the right gear.

Make sure you get up on the East Side of Zion and do one of the drainages. Tanya has the Beta for Many Pools or Two Pines on her site. There are several others.

You're staying in Boulder so be sure to take a drive down the Burr Trail, in fact you can go down it and into Capitol Reef, head North on Notom Rd and exit just East of Torrey. You may want an SUV for this.

Have fun.

Win

[tanya]

These guys have it covered... for Zion and Bryce. Do you have any questions?

[Cirrus2000]

It's very wise to rent the canyoneering shoes and wet suit for subway, you will get very wet and the water is very cold now. You can rent everything from Springdale shop, I forgot the name of it, it's by Pizza place, can't miss it. The shoes will be a life saver for you. (5.10 canyoneers)

Actually, that location of the Zion Adventure Company (http://www.zionadventures.com/) is closed for renovations right now. They're open in the new building, though, up on Lion Blvd. (Their website needs updating!). Beautiful new place.

Other hikes to consider (none technical) in Zion: Angel's Landing, Overlook point and Emerald Pools.

Angels Landing is fantastic. If you're scared of heights and inexperienced, it may be a little daunting, but doable. Overlook Point is quick and easy, and quite nice. Observation Point is another good one, though fairly strenuous. Something I like to do is just park somewhere on the east side of the tunnel, and start walking up the drainages that Win mentioned... With or without previous info, it's fun to do.

Lower Calf Creek Falls is a nice hike, but fairly short - what I did was to do it as a drive-by at the end of the day. Arrived at the trailhead a couple of hour before dark, then reached the falls just before sunset. Walked back in the twilight, and reached the lot just before needing my headlamp.

If you're doing Spooky, do the whole Peekaboo/Spooky loop. From Tom's site: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/esca/drycoy.htm

I have mixed feelings about Bryce. It's truly stunning to look at, but I think you'd probably be happy with a day there. I was sated after about 4 hours - but very glad I went!


OK, while I was typing this (and eating breakfast), Win and Tanya posted, so there's some redundancy, but I'll still hit "Submit"!

[Alex]

Didn't know that about the renting place, thanks for heads up!

I loved Bryce when I was there, and I did spend a couple of days in the inn within the park. We did the whole big loop, whatever the name of it is...?

But the neato part about Bryce is the Sunrise! We got up at 5am and were sitting on the edge waiting for the sun to appear, what a beautiful site! I'd also recommend taking a helicopter ride to see Bryce.

[stefan]

Subway is permitted, so you have to camp the visitor center in early hours to get a permit.

though technically they do not allow you to camp at the permit office. if you need to hang out, you must make it look as though you're not "camping"

[trackrunner]

I hope by now you've discovered Tanya and Bo's site, a good reference for this area:

www.zionnational-park.com

For Bryce I would suggest the Fairyland Loop or go in the Queens Garden and connect to the Peekaboo Loop coming out at Navajo. Both are good "in the canyon" hikes.

If you're going down Hole in the Rock make sure to spend some time in the Devil's Garden, you'll pass right by it.

In Zion make sure you do Angel's Landing and Observation Pt. Both are classic Zion hikes. Start early! Check at Zion Adventure for Narrows info, water flow is a bit high and it will be cold. They'll rent you the right gear.

Make sure you get up on the East Side of Zion and do one of the drainages. Tanya has the Beta for Many Pools or Two Pines on her site. There are several others.

You're staying in Boulder so be sure to take a drive down the Burr Trail, in fact you can go down it and into Capitol Reef, head North on Notom Rd and exit just East of Torrey. You may want an SUV for this.

Have fun.

Win

Everyone has pretty much covered it. I would second Angle's Landing & Observation point in that order. Both are classic and Angle's Landing IMO is the most iconic hike in Zion. If you are afraid of heights these trails are not for you. 1400 ft drop off on the east side & 800 ft drop on the west side of Angle's Landing. Trail is as narrow as 3 ft wide and only one small chain for up and down traffic to use as a crutch. An early start is important to beat the heat but for Angle's Landing it is really important so the trail isn't too crowded (beat the crowds). Three weeks ago there were too many people on the trail by 11:00 AM to safely pass on the narrow ridge, thankfully no one died.

Another easy hike but iconic is Emerald Pools. On the east side there is the canyon overlook trail. It is only a mile round trip so an hour max is needed. Combine this with Win

[bryan]

Thanks for the tips everybody. I'll be sure to add Burr Trail and the east Zion drainages to the list.

Looking at some pics of Angel's Landing, I think I'm going to go up to scout's lookout and make the call from there. Just looking at some of those pics makes my palms sweat!

I'm definitely going to look into the Subway some more-- it looks incredible. I had kind of ruled it out since some websites make it sound somewhat technical.

[tanya]

The photos make Angels Landing look far worse than it is.

[Cirrus2000]

The photos make Angels Landing look far worse than it is.

Agreed - set aside enough time to do the whole thing, and just keep going until you can't anymore. I'm sure you'll make it to the top. Concentrate on what's in front of you, hold the chains (if needed), and don't look off to the side if it spooks you. One step at a time...

[trackrunner]

The photos make Angels Landing look far worse than it is.

Agreed - set aside enough time to do the whole thing, and just keep going until you can't anymore. I'm sure you'll make it to the top. Concentrate on what's in front of you, hold the chains (if needed), and don't look off to the side if it spooks you. One step at a time...

That is why I think an early start with no crowds is important. You'll be able to go at your own pace and not be forced to move on those narrow platforms because of the crowds.

It is defiantly worth the hike; you'll have an amazing view of the canyon at the top.

Get an early start, go slow and use the chains even if you

[Win]

With Angel's Landing, you'll know as soon as you hit the chains if you'll do it or not. I did this in 2003 at 59 and did not have a problem, my wife has still not done it. Only you can decide. Scout's Lookout is still a great place and from there you can venture up the West Rim Trail bit.

Win

[RedRoxx]

Near Boulder Upper Calf Creek falls is a shorter scenic hike then you can wade bushwack down almost to upper falls. Lower is pretty nice if not on a day with a busload of kids.
Off Hole in the Rock Spooky and Peek a Boo are fun, but I like the hike and photography better at Zebra and Tunnel slots. Again, can be very busy if on a weekend.
Bryce I concur, can see and do most of what you want in a day.
Zion is special, and deserves more time.

[Deathcricket]

Yeah bro! You're going to love Zion. I would put Subway and Angel's landing to the top of your list. If you do go on a crowded day, hit up "hidden canyon" that one is never crowded and one of my faves also. There is a little mini arch and some great rocks to scramble on. I went 3 weeks ago and there was still quite a bit of snow in there too. So should be nice and cool since it's starting to heat up.

Check your private message, I sent you a map for Subway, just in case. Navigation in the beginning is a little tricky and getting lost eats up your whole day. Well it did for me anyways.


Oh yeah weeping rock! Only takes 15 mins and is well worth the short walk.

[trackrunner]

If you do go on a crowded day, hit up "hidden canyon" that one is never crowded and one of my faves also.

Second on Hidden Canyon

[Iceaxe]

Our basic plans are 3 nights Zion, 1 night Boulder, 1 night Torrey, and 2 nights Bryce.

Not a bad plan... but if you are more of a hiker then a stop the car and look type of tourist.....

3 nights Zion, 1 night Boulder, 2 nights Torrey, and 1 night Bryce.

Bryce is nice and probably has the biggest "WOW!!!" factor.... but you can use up all the neato really fast.

There is a lot of nice hiking in Capitol Reef... one of my favorite family hikes is Sulphur Creek.

Sulphur Creek
http://climb-utah.com/Capitol/sulphur.htm



And Calf Creek is worth the time and effert....

Calf Creek Falls
http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/calfcreek.htm

[erial]

re: subway. i've only done the bottom route. worth the effort in my opinion. no ropes or swimming, but i think you still need a permit. as for the thru route, last week swimming was involved in a couple spots. that's my recollection of what james from dc related to me of his hike. he also mentioned the permit person trying to discourage him from doing the thru hike, but james persisted and won out.

Anyway, some folks might balk at the idea of cold water swims more than they might the idea of handlining down a slope.

[bryan]

Just wanted to come back and post a quick report. Well of course we had a great time. The weather was perfect pretty much the entire time. Zion is really incredible and, not surprisingly, was our favorite park. The scale and diversity of terrain is awesome.

I'd say the highlights for us were Observation Point and Hidden Canyon @ Zion, Spooky & Peek-a-boo slots (so much fun!), and driving the Burr Trail switchbacks. Unfortunately, the Zion Narrows was closed due to water flow and the wife wasn't up for the Subway, but that leaves plenty of good stuff to come back for some day.

I have to say, I was also really impressed with the food just about everywhere. The only mediocre meals we had were at the lodges.

As far as advice to leave behind for any other Southern UT first-timers who google this thread:
Bring chapstick and moisturizer.
Get the garlic burger at Oscar's in Springdale (best burger I've ever had).
Boulder Mountain Lodge-- the restaurant is obviously pricey (but very good) but the rooms are a relative bargain at about $97/night. I loved waking up to the sound of the birds in the wetlands behind the lodge. We wanted to stay another night.
Bryce can be seen in one full day if you've got the energy for it. We stayed two nights, and the hikes weren't very varied just as other said. But, at that point in the trip, we were tired of driving so it was nice to stay two nights.
Late April seems like a sweet spot as far as crowds and weather goes. The weather was perfect (a bit chilly in Bryce, but fine) but the trails and shuttles everywhere were very quiet. The only downside was the Zion Narrows being closed.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice. It was invaluable.

[Win]

Looks like you had a great time. Thanks for posting your experience, I'm sure it will be helpful to others.

Nice photos, too!

Win