Should DVRs be illegal?

[Sombeech]

Speaking of bit torrents, filesharing, and copying media, let's have a debate on this subject.

And no, this has nothing to do with Iraq, Obama, or Gun Rights. Let's have a respectable debate.

Alright, so is it, or is it not illegal to record an episode of LOST on TV? Is it then illegal to download that same episode via fileshare or bit torrent?

Is it because of the ads? Because I remember hitting pause on my VCR for commercials. Is it because it takes work to edit the commercials, that makes it legal to record the episode?

So why then, have VCRs been completely legal for decades? What else are you going to record with a single slot VCR other than something on the TV? And why can you not download this same item legally?

[JP]

I upgraded from VCR to DVR a year or two ago. It's the next step in progression. I record things that I pay for, such as a UFC fight, when I know I have to be in work that night. I use it for my own personal viewing. I agree, nobody made a stink about VCR's that did the same thing.

[RugerShooter]

I just got my first DVR a week ago, they are great, I don't see them as illegal, like 'beech said, you still have the commercials, and you pay an extra fee every month just to have it, so there is noway it could be illegal.

[Skylinerider]

....... and you pay an extra fee every month just to have it, so there is noway it could be illegal.

I don't pay any fee for mine

I don't they are or should be illegal, I also don't think downloading content from the internet should be illegal.

[asdf]

I am unaware of anyone ever being prosecuted for a downloading a TV show. I have always just figured they want to you get hooked so you will watch the latest and greatest episodes when they air for the first time.
Now downloading unreleased movies is a different story... They want you go to the theater and get that $5 popcorn.

I dont have a VCR or DVR.... I work with a lot of nerds and can hook up most any movie without downloading anything. I even had a good copy of StarWars ep. III three days before it was in the theaters

But to answer the question.. Yes they should be illegal if downloads are illegal as well.

[Sombeech]

I am unaware of anyone ever being prosecuted for a downloading a TV show.

I know a few people, one of them here, that have received the "Cease and Desist" letter from the studio lawyer for downloading a TV series.

I just don't understand. Are DVRs and VCRs legal because it takes effort to edit out the commercials? I could record my own season of "The Office" and put it on my PC for my viewing pleasure any time. As far as I know, this is perfectly legal.

If that's not legal to record the TV, how in the world are VCRs and DVRs legal?

[Teleken]

The legal aspect of DVRs (and VCRs in the day) is very grey. They can't stop someone from making a product even if it's use is regulated.

When blank cassettes were created in order to sell them and avoid lawsuits they made an agreement with all the major record labels to share in the profits for every blank that was sold.
I wonder if there is a similar agreement with the makers of DVRs and the networks?

[CarpeyBiggs]

Google "time shifting." It is perfectly legal to time shift programs that you have paid for, just like you did with a VCR. It is even legal to record a movie from your premium channel to watch later, even put it on DVD. How you record and store the program to watch it later is irrelevant. You just aren't allowed to sell it, or distribute, or watch it somewhere other than in the privacy of your own home, or for anything other than private use.

It is illegal to participate in distribution, either by receiving or sending, copyrighted works other than through services that are legally permitted to do so.

[CarpeyBiggs]

I wonder if there is a similar agreement with the makers of DVRs and the networks?

Yes, there are agreements with most television networks, and most importantly, premium cable channels. It comes in the form of encrypted video channels, and DRM on digital recording devices. For instance, on my DVR, I can only watch DVD's of premium movie channels that I have recorded on just my DVR. If I gave it to a friend, it wouldn't work...

Of course, there are ways to get around this stuff, but that would be...

[Deathcricket]

Good topic! Making it more confusing is the fact that you can now watch a good amount of shows anytime you want from abc.com, nbc.com. Any they have 1/10th the commercials you see on regular tv. So i guess i would follow Carpey's logic that as long as you don't distribute it, it's all legal and you can do whatever you want.

A major difference though i see between the DVR and VCR is that you now have a perfect digital copy whereas before you have an analog copy that was not as good as the original. So no matter how many copies you make it will show very little degradation.

If you guys want my personal opinion, and I know you do :). I cant back this with data but i think they are making a big stink because we can now bypass commercials and they are losing revenue. i can seriously get though an hour show in 45 mins to half hour sometimes. It's out of control. The new shows are really bad like "moment of truth" and "my dad is better than your dad". I seriously will not watch tv "live" anymore unless it's UFC or something like that.

I'm also noticing they have these huge ass commercials that appear at the bottom portion of the screen while the show is playing. This is because more and more people arent even watching the commercials now IMO. They are just greedy bastards and have brought about their own demise. So now it's time to sue a couple people and send out some "cease and desist" letters in an effort to maintain control. More people are learning how to work proxy servers though and will get around that as time progresses. Downloading anonymously(sp?) is not that hard.

I think the way they should go is free up the whole system. Put the commercials in the program. Like "here's the Pepsi instant replay" and make money that way. But we all know they wont until they have no choice. So yeah I think DVR's should not only be legal, they have revolutionized the industry and will bring about a serious change for the better in programming. I can foresee a future where a program gets downloaded directly to my DVR with no TV airing time whatsoever, and I welcome it. That will open up nitch markets and the making of more programs i actually want to watch. Then they can still have the "survivor" and "american idol" for the masses. WIN/WIN everybodies happy.

[trackrunner]

Dam I'm so stupid. I voted yes for its legal, not criminal. Then I read the answer, stupid, stupid, stupid. I do recall that when VCR first came out and consumers could record programs a lawsuit was filed by media outlets against VCR/tape producers allowing their product to copy their programs. It made all the way to the Supreme Court which ruled that individuals can make a copy for their own personal use, but can't profit it. It is the last part on what is personal use and profit from it that is confusing.

[Sombeech]

You just aren't allowed to sell it, or distribute,

Now, this actually makes sense. I agree that we wouldn't have the right to sell it, but distribution may be debatable still.

If it is everybody's right to own a DVR or VCR, they are free to have a copy of this media in their home and watch it whenever they like.

So, what if they are using their friend's DVR, at their friend's house? Is it actually then illegal to have somebody else record it for you, because maybe you aren't around?

Let's think pre-DVR, and pre VCR timer. Nobody will be home at my house tonight, so can I ask you to record this? Sure. Then I come over and get it.

I think the industry doesn't like this part of the ease of distribution these days, so they're inventing ways of making the same old LEGAL ethics, illegal.

The ease of distribution has greatly benefitted the media industry with fast delivery, and fast payment, with almost NONE of the distribution costs. They just want their cake and to eat it too. They only want one side of this technology, to reap only the benefits and none of the consequences.

If they figured they can substitute the cost of burning CDs and Tapes, shipment in trucks, fuel, and stocking shelves, sending the reps out to the stores.... they can just trade that cost in for the percentage of people that do not buy the music.

I think that's a fair trade for the benefit of technology.

[accadacca]

Extra special HIGH QUALITY version of the 1992 anti-piracy video we all know and love!