Ruins

[Byron]

Question, are you all finding stuff around these sites still or have they all pretty well been picked clean? Asking for a friend.

I can answer that question quite seriously...if you want to find "stuff", not just a pile of rocks or the empty hull of a dwelling...you have to go exploring.

Virtually everything I've found has been off the beaten path...like getting up in the morning and going in the opposite direction that everyone else is going. I don't think there are any large structures that remain unfound...but there certainly are granaries and campsites that hadn't seen a visitor in a thousand years before I got there. I've met some guys that are also hardy hikers/backpackers who also have found undisturbed sites...and when they told me where they were I thought, "Well now, you're an explorer, aren't you?".

Nooks and crannies....it's all about those nooks and crannies that you would think no one would bother climbing up to...but those Indians were everywhere. You gotta be a strong hiker and prepared to go all day without finding a damn thing, but you don't stop. It could take several weeks of hiking just to find a few sites.

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Question, are you all finding stuff around these sites still or have they all pretty well been picked clean? Asking for a friend.

Just considering potsherds in particular; there are a lot less than there used to be that is for sure, but still that is all depending on where you go. Some of the off the radar sites I've been to were surprisingly sterile, yet a very few of the known sites still have a ton of potsherds lying around, though those require backpacking to get to. I've heard that archaeologists will collect all of the surface potsherds at accessible or well known sites, perhaps in problem areas.

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[kiwi_outdoors]

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[Scott Card]

I actually do like exploring. I would love to go on a walkabout for a few days with a camera. Problem is, I'm the only weirdo in my family that way. I think when my son is back from his church mission in Africa we will hit the desert the winter of 2023. I certainly don't want to blast specific location info on the internet because I think these sites ought to be preserved, but where generally would one wander about? BTW, my son is getting toughened up right now. He will be a strong hiker when he gets home. I'm actually really proud of my son. I am very grateful I took him camping and canyoneering and taught him to cook with fire and use a water filter.

[Byron]

I actually do like exploring. I would love to go on a walkabout for a few days with a camera. I certainly don't want to blast specific location info on the internet because I think these sites ought to be preserved, but where generally would one wander about?

I could tell ya...but then I'd have to kill ya

A place like Cedar Mesa is good. Of course there are the ruins that everyone goes there to see...but just wander around a bit and there's more than meets the eye. Most of the stuff you'll stumble onto can be rather "small"...but interesting nonetheless.

Also...there are things to be found that are, um..."adjacent" to the so called well known areas. Kinda like..."I wonder if they went over/up there, too?". In many cases...yes, they did.

Let me know when you're ready to hike. Not all the good stuff requires multi day backpacks. There's one area in particular we can camp for a few days that you and your son will love...it's far from the beaten path, seriously quiet and just a wonderful place to get away from it all with lots too see. Here's a picture of the area...I was just there for a whole week last April.

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[Byron]

/\/\/\...that's a good one.

[kiwi_outdoors]

have you noticed a proliferation of Wildernness Study Areas and Instant Study Areas in the last decade (or two). Which means no vehicle camping (or access). Two of our fave camping locations in the Cedar Mesa outback are just barely legal.

[Byron]

have you noticed a proliferation of Wildernness Study Areas and Instant Study Areas in the last decade (or two). Which means no vehicle camping (or access). Two of our fave camping locations in the Cedar Mesa outback are just barely legal.

You bet I've noticed it...and I'm a bit concerned.

About 10 years ago, I began to notice more and more people camping off the beaten track. Tent campers, but lots of vehicles of all different configurations. It all seems to be getting smaller now. The bummer is the trash and destruction...shit and toilet paper all over the place. It's getting really bad around Moab, especially north of town in the Willow Springs, Dalton Springs and Klondike areas. In fact, the authorities are already making moves to stop or severely limit "dispersed" camping. I think Cedar Mesa may be next and I wouldn't be surprised if they start putting restrictions on the Hole in the Rock road. The Swell has RVs all over the place and Gooseberry Mesa is not so slowly being destroyed...I'm amazed at how much impact has occurred in just 6 years up there...people are just plowing into the bushes to camp and burning up anything they can find.

I'm sure the day will come that just driving down a dirt road to camp for free on BLM, National Forest, etc...will be a thing of the past. There are websites where people are showing places to camp for free and while most are just some place off the side of the road, some of the "remote" or "secret" places I've discovered over the last 35 years are showing up, too.

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[oldno7]

^^^One of my favorite ruins...

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