UUtah becomes Bogley

[Jaxx]

Mabey put up a poll and see what the response is. It probably won't change your minds but I would be curious as to how many people are for this change.

[accadacca]

How about we just make a UColorado, UArizona, UNevada, UWyoming, etc.

It will take years and years and years to outweigh the Utah content, if ever. We have 3 years of Utah outdoor content built up on this site. Additionally, as fourtycal mentioned, many/all of these sports are HUGE in Utah, some call Utah home. I would be happy to just get some new users from neighboring states, to see what they have in their backyards. Which is only a few hours drive for me. I love seeing the trip reports that Tanya, Bo, Brewhaha and many others post.

[tanya]

But! You guys bike down here so you visit this area a lot and know it well.


I think this all has to do with the owners being youngsters (liking the new stuff and both are into sells and advertising and trying to stay on top of things) and trying to 'improve' their site. Although I am not for it, the younger generation probably is - and as much as us old timers (not just talking age) don't like it, change happens. Either we keep up or stagnate.


Bottom line... The site belongs to Scott and 'Beech has a big influence. What they say will go. Bogley is a name... something like Yahoo that means nothing, but has room to grow based on it's content. I still think that the title should be something to do with the outdoors and I would like Utah in it, but probably most thought that Yahoo's name should be something like ..... webbased site or something boring.

[trackrunner]

I understand wanting to expand the site and droppin the uutah will help with the expansion. But after reading all the posts I'm still a little lost at Bogley, couldn't there be a better word. Oh well like Tanya said Bogley may grow on me too as time goes buy. But I will always still refer to it as UUTAH so don't drop that domain name.

By the way love the site.

[oldno7]

Not a fan of the change.
I'm guessing it has more to do with drawing in advertising from a broader base=more money. You guys deserve to make this more than a hobby, just not sure eliminating Utah from the name will accomplish the goal.

[jumar]

I like it
I post things that are outside of Utah, but still may be of interest to Utah folks, since it's still within driving distance (for example Wyoming caves and slot canyons).
I'm pretty easy to please though.

I think it'll still be mostly Utah focused, at least for some time.

[Sombeech]

Seriously, what has changed?

We'll change the uutah.com header to Bogley.com, and we'll rename a few things like UUtah Unplugged to Unplugged.

I think we're getting a little too worried that the Utah demographic will be diluted.

Acca and I are Utahns, and hardly ever travel out of state with exception to the Wind Rivers. Thus, our content will remain relevant to Utah. With an overwhelming majority of Utahns posting, wouldn't it just stay Utah based anyways?

[ExpUt]

Seriously, what has changed?

...Acca and I are Utahns, and hardly ever travel out of state with exception to the Wind Rivers. Thus, our content will remain relevant to Utah. With an overwhelming majority of Utahns posting, wouldn't it just stay Utah based anyways?

I think we all agree nothing will change immediately... but re-read Acca's mission statement (post #1), thats change. Inviting more out of staters to join, and more threads about destinations outside of Utah, again, thats change. I'm not saying I'll leave just because the option has been opened up, but the draw for me was the focus, a blurred focus is not.

[Sombeech]

Here's a thought.

I'm not a Canyoneer, I don't ride Motorcycles, and I have never been a big Sports Fan. I rarely visit these 3 forums, even though they're quite active.

I come here and I stick to the things I enjoy, and I enjoy the community created within those select forums.

If you don't visit the Climbing forum, and there's a climbing link from Argentina, would you even know? I wouldn't. In fact, I haven't been in the Climbing forum for a while, but I notice a lot of activity there.

But if it's a link about a harness from somebody in Uruguay, that topic has no demographic boundaries because it's talking about equipment. Many of our existing topics are not related to a certain area, they discuss skills, equipment, and best practices.

We'd love everybody to at least wait and see how it will be, and I think everybody will be at ease. The only way the "Utah Community" will be diluted is if Utahns leave the forum, not by newcomers.

[Cirrus2000]

I'm not saying I'll leave just because the option has been opened up, but the draw for me was the focus, a blurred focus is not.

Well put.

As an out of state-er (OK, foreigner) I'm not really keen on the proposed (eventual) changes. I like having a place to come for my Utah jones.

The name just makes me shrug. The little dude just looks like some rock and roll fanboy tried to make up a cutesy gremlin rock and roll fanboy, having nothing to do with anything outdoors. (I know, I know - that's exactly what it is. BTW, are those Wayfarers?)

I understand that you guys are wanting to pimp the site into something more. Hell, if I wasn't over the hill, firmly settled in my middle-class nirvana, and had an entrepreneurial bone in my body, I'd probably be working on some kind of money-making-off-the-internet plan, too.

Honestly, I can't see the niche particularly well. There are geographically localized sites for a broad spectrum of activities (like uutah). There are sites for specialized activities throughout a larger region (SummitPost leaps to mind). But I wonder if the Bogley concept is just a little too nebulous to do well. I mean, I'd be happy to eat those words if things go well, but I do wonder...

So, yeah, I'll sit back and watch and see what happens. I'm not going anywhere - I love the information this site provides (on Utah), and enjoy much of the company. So, like I say, I'll stick around and watch what develops...

[Scott Card]

Not a fan of the change. I am a canyoneer. I started with Climb-Utah then that went to UUtah. My canyoneering is almost exclusively Utah. It seems to me that the draw of this site is in fact Utah. I am not opposed to out of state stuff being posted but to me, folks wanting to know what Utah outdoors stuff is about will be looking for "Utah". It is just muddy for me. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with making more bucks but I am here because of the Utah stuff. If the TR's start coming in from Tennessee, I must admit, I'm not terribly interested. (Nothing against Tennessee, I just don't have a hankerin' to visit)

There is also something about familiarity that breeds some trust. I understand the skills stuff being universal and I am a fan of a guy from Europe named Koen whom I have never met. He posts occasionally on the Yahoo group and seems to have a ton of really good tips and techniques. I have saved several of his posts. He is known by and canyoneered with folks that I trust. But that may be the exception? I don't know. It is nice to read posts of folks who know the locations and nuances of this State rather that generalities. An example is in discussing pothole escape techniques in the bad boy in Quandary or the nastys in Imlay.

The other reason I have enjoye this UTAH site is that I have kids and I have not entirely given up on hiking, fishing, snowshoeing, and I am about to do some cycling . I want to know about my own back yard.

My time is limited and the less time I spend in weeding the better.

Seems like you are trying to make IN-n-Out burgers into a buffet? For some of us that loses the appeal of the joint.

[Bo_Beck]

If the TR's start coming in from Tennessee, I must admit, I'm not terribly interested. (Nothing against Tennessee, I just don't have a hankerin' to visit)
Seems like you are trying to make IN-n-Out burgers into a buffet? For some of us that loses the appeal of the joint.

Once you get a feel for the buffet, It's easy to figure out where your favorite course is!

[stefan]

Why do you care about getting info from out of staters that don't visit utah? Mabey the change will grow on me but I feel like it's not for UUTAHNS its for the cash.

I know that you guys spend alot of time and money on this site and it only makes sense to get paid for it. I know that thanks don't pay the bills but thanks anyway.

okay ... but it should be clarified that THIS change is NOT for money.

it's is about opening up and attracting more members ... more folks passionate about the outdoors and thereby bringing more content to the site.



having grown up in utah, i think it's a great place.

utah is a state (perhaps more appropriately a state of mind), but, geographically speaking, the great outdoors in the west has no political boundaries (though it is clearly affected by them). we often talk about "southern utah," but the colorado plateau is something special and doesn't end at the state borders.

i can understand and respect the views of the "purists," wanting to keep uutah/bogley as a primarily utah-focused and intimate site. and it's good to be able to voice your opinions.

i think the concept of making the site more open makes sense. utah is like the "hub of the west." utah has such great access to all of the states. all of the states in the west are simply incredible, almost as incredible as utah the sharing of great information between like-minded individuals in the west, i imagine, would be a great thing.

i think this idea is quite open-minded, and ultimately when the software is in place, you'll be able to curtail the posts to utah or whatever. this site will change just as it has in the past year, and past two years, and so on. but i agree this change IS different.

i think there are many out-of-staters who love utah and love other states. in a more open environment they will likely be more interested in posting on utah AND their beloved other places. i imagine great exchanges. more content, more eyecandy, more vicarious living for those stuck at werk! more friends in other places.

i've grown up with the perception of utah as home and where i mainly spend my time, but also with the perception of the west as full of amazing places i want to discover. i love the towering forests of the pacific northwest and the sierras, the mountains across the west are just amazing. northern arizona is an incredible place. british columbia (minus the extensive logging) is simply paradise. oh yeah and that great state to the north ... just spectacular.

i think it'll slowly grow as a site of people who have connections to utah and be a open place to share our adventures.

the west is the best ... and utah is (roughly) the center of it.

[Sombeech]

If you are expecting a flood of non relevant material to be posted with this name change, you've got different expectations than us.

I'll say this again:
I just did some research, and of our top 300 posters, 52 of them are from outside of Utah.
(unless there are more that don't say so in their profile)

Even this last week there were several statements made that began with "I know this isn't in Utah, but....", when it was a question about Colorado, Nevada, or Arizona.

THIS is the main point. Many of us are interested in this REGION (not religion ), we don't want to limit content to the Utah border. We all love the Grand Canyon topics, and this is exactly the stuff we want to make welcome.

We never intend on reading about hiking trails in Iowa, but would we have shunned them in the past if one of our members had some great pics? I'm actually happy to see JamisJockey's drunk fishing pics from back east.

Don't expect this to be a diluted nation wide forum. The forum is the member base. If 90% of the content is Utah relevant, it stays a Utah forum. That's it.

We're not losing our groups and communities. For the out-of-staters that love Utah, keep posting your Utah content! We don't need to see your hometown material if you don't want to talk about it. I just don't know what else I can say to ease your minds.

[accadacca]

All the jabs about money really hurt and are LOW blows. I have not made a dime on this site and money has NEVER been how decisions were made. I have asked for donations to help pay for server fees. What about my time that I spend 24-7 to make sure the site is up. Who does the updates, who has developed all the upgrades to the site, who fights off spammers, who activates every single account, fields emails, has moved the site 5 times to different servers to handle the load, etc, etc, etc. It is really easy to just sit back, ride the gravy train, bitch and moan at change. Who else would like to carry this burden?

I get tired of members wondering if they can post content from out of state. There has been a growing trend of members who are not sure if they belong or if their reports will be accepted. This site is about sharing and I guess some have lost that focus. Don

[tanya]

Would you like to use my newest avatar?

~hugs~

[Felicia]

Change is an oppertunity for something better. I like change and I look forward to watching Bogley grow.

[Cirrus2000]

THIS is the main point. Many of us are interested in this REGION (not religion ), we don't want to limit content to the Utah border. We all love the Grand Canyon topics, and this is exactly the stuff we want to make welcome.

I'm more comfortable with the idea of a "Western" forum. I, like many, believe there is a particular mindset, a zeitgeist, about living west of... wherever. The Rockies? The Great Plains? There's something out here...

I'm actually happy to see JamisJockey's drunk fishing pics from back east.

I could have done without seeing his tan lines.

I just don't know what else I can say to ease your minds.

Well, honestly, what you're saying is helping somewhat. Still, I'm adopting a wait and see attitude. I'll not try to wreck the change, or resist it. And if the site begins to trascend Utah (as it already does a tiny bit), I'll take what I can from it, and add what I can as well. Can't hurt...

All the jabs about money really hurt and are LOW blows. I have not made a dime on this site and money has NEVER been how decisions were made. I have asked for donations to help pay for server fees. What about my time that I spend 24-7 to make sure the site is up. Who does the updates, who has developed all the upgrades to the site, who fights off spammers, who activates every single account, fields emails, has moved the site 5 times to different servers to handle the load, etc, etc, etc. It is really easy to just sit back, ride the gravy train, bitch and moan at change. Who else would like to carry this burden?

My apologies if my remarks about money were out of line. I guess it's the cynic in me coming out. I know that it's a lot of work - which is why I assumed that part of the rationale behind the change is to make it more... rewarding. If you're concerned about the amount of work involved right now, why else would growing the site be a priority? Perhaps because the alternative to growth on the internet is atrophy? I don't know.

I make the comments about seeing you as trying to "grow the site" based in part on the following quotes from the e-mail sent out to members last week:
[quote][list][*]The traffic spike of Dec 26 (and many other spikes) has recruited zero members[*]The community can

[rockgremlin]

Tanya -- why are you crying? Do you need a hug?


I am a bit divided on this issue. I am not one that embraces change easily. However, I also like to think that I maintain an open mind about most things. That said, I'm here for the long haul. I think it's unfair to be so hasty in our judgements. Give it some time. Kick the tires. See where things end up after the dust settles. A year from now if it's as bad as you thought it was gonna be at first, then you're justified if you make the decision to log out for the last time.


Remember --- it is a natural human tendency to FIGHT change. Many are concerned that this forum will change for the worse, but I really liked what Sombeech said earlier.....the only way this place is gonna lose it's Utah base is if all of the Utahns bail out of their own accord.

[tanya]

Tanya -- why are you crying? Do you need a hug?