Rappel Anchors

[Iceaxe]

Here is a website with some useful/interesting information on rappel anchors.

http://www.ryanojerio.20m.com/Rock2_...Principles.htm

[Jaxx]

always good to refresh on anchors. I always wondered why we don't use two rapids on the anchor. Rock Climbers double everything.

Is there and downside to having 2 rapids on the anchor as far as pulling the rope or something like that. I may start doubling them from now on even though one is probably safe enough.

[trackrunner]

Sorry to butt in before anyone has posted on my Newbie form post. Great thread, sticky?

I believe the reason most rock climbers double up because in the pictures those are not locking bingers. On non-locking the binears appose each other. If a locking binear was used one would be enough though doesn

[ratagonia]

always good to refresh on anchors. I always wondered why we don't use two rapids on the anchor. Rock Climbers double everything.

Is there any downside to having 2 rapids on the anchor as far as pulling the rope or something like that. I may start doubling them from now on even though one is probably safe enough.

No downside. In fact, you leaving 2 works out well, because then when I come along, I can leave 1 and have an extra in my pocket!!

Is that a maillon in your pocket or....?

As Noob pointed out, if you are a climber and carry non-locking carabiners, then it takes two with gates reversed to "create" a locking carabiner. I think it's easier just to carry all locking carabiners...

I think there is a small chance that the rope could get jammed between the rapides, especially if they are different sizes.

The other downside is what I call "a foolish redundancy". Leaving two 10,000 pound rapid links does not make you safer, it only makes you poorer. Adding another 8000 lb sling to the tree anchor does not make you safer, it just leaves more crap in the wilderness and makes the anchor harder to inspect. If the first sling is substandard, remove it and rig the anchor with a good sling. Etc. rant rant rant...

Nope, no downside. In fact, think of how safe you would be if you loaded up that anchor with an entire box of 20 8mm rapides. WAY SAFE! I'd even give you a really good deal on em, especially if you keep them nice and clean so I can sell them again after I clean them from your anchor...

Tom

[Cirrus2000]

Is there any downside to having 2 rapids on the anchor as far as pulling the rope or something like that. I may start doubling them from now on even though one is probably safe enough.

No downside. In fact, you leaving 2 works out well, because then when I come along, I can leave 1 and have an extra in my pocket!!

This reminds me of when I was down in Red Rocks with a friend this fall. We were rapping down from a climb, and a couple guys caught up to us at the anchors from higher up. My friend had started down, and I was discussing the anchor with these other fellows. We were rapping off a bolt and a big old piton with rapides on 'em. There was another piton beside the first, and they asked whether we'd considered throwing a 'biner or rapide on it as backup. I said we'd considered it, but decided it was fine without. "Just as well," they replied, "we'd have just nabbed it anyway..." Turns out they were professional guides in the area for some kind of certification shtuff. Maybe they were just testing us? We must have passed, as we shared raps the rest of the way down.

[Iceaxe]

Dang Tom, you are giving away my best secret..... I haven't bought a rapid in the last three year. I keep my supply stocked by cleaning up the rats nest often found at a rappel anchors.

[Jaxx]

Tom and Shane just let me know what canyons you are going down and I will try to double up on all the raps before for ya go down.

Ok, I guess that answers my question. Luckily I haven't donated any rapids to anyones stash just yet.

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: I usually double those skinny rappel rings you sometimes find.

[ratagonia]

FWIW: I usually double those skinny rappel rings you sometimes find.

(From the upcoming knots etc. book; in the chapter Tools of the Trade:)

Rings for Canyoneering

The RAPPEL POINT, the place that the rope is doubled through and then pulled through on retrieved rappels, should be a ring made of metal. A canyoneer CAN place the rappelling rope directly through a webbing (or rope) sling, but this is a bad idea. Pulling the rope damages the sling, leaving behind a sling that could break when used by the next group. Somewhat similarly, a canyoneer CAN place the rappelling rope directly around a tree; again, pulling the rope damages (and will eventually) kill the tree. The extra friction from such arrangements will make the pull difficult or impossible.

Metal rings come in several varieties. MAILLONS RAPIDES (also known as Quicklinks, Rapid Links or Rapides) are metal chain links with a screwgate on one side, originally made for joining chains. Rapides are available in a large range of sizes, and usually made of steel. They are inexpensive, and low-quality ones are available at many hardware stores. Higher-quality ones, such as those made in France by the original Maillons Rapide company, are still inexpensive and can be found at well-equipped climbing and canyoneering stores. The 7mm and 8mm sizes work well in most canyons, though people using small ropes sometimes prefer the lighter 6mm size.

Climber

[chabidiah]

I just saw a box of 50 rapid links from MPS in Salt Lake for $25. Check it out