Seeking Sandthrax Beta

[ratagonia]

When Jeff, Ryan and I did it, we did it as an offwidth, however, I led it and didn't entirely free it (pulled on a cam for the first move or two). Jeff did follow it free, and reported around 5.10+.

Yeah, but. Jeff is one of them talented-types. Can he accurately rate something as easy as 5.10+ ?

A serious question. I know he was, many years ago, ticking off the 5.13s - thus the question.

But then again, few people do enough off-widths to really be able to accurately rate them. Even for the talented boys, they seem to be rated 5.hard. or in Yosemite, 5.9.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

I'm not hip on all the new lingo. (It was called free-climbing when you didn't use a rope; now it's free-soloing, etc.) I just like to explore, climb, etc. Whatever you want to call it, then call it that. Both of us climbed up, using a rope and cams/bro for protection, no aid, first try, no falls.

Naw, that "free climbing" definition has been around for years. Seem like I have some video of Barber in England in the 70's and they make the distinction between the two then, and, much prior to that methinks. Media seems to get it wrong upon occasion.

When nuts became popular in England, there were some in the old guard who felt like using them was cheating, 'cause you could get protection with a nut above your head in some places...ala toprope on lead...too funny...

And, wasn't an "onsight" per se, if you asked for beta and used beta or any prior knowledge of the route prior to ascending. Would have been a "flash" ascent by the leader.

Climbing has more rules than golf...

Nat, good info. That's the comparison I was kinda looking for.

Doesn't surprise me that a Stevie B type can bypass and stem past the OW, though. Amazing what folks can do and climb. Especially with good core and high contact strength. Darn kids.

Hmmm....amazing how many folks are doing this route...its become quite the trade route.

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

Hmmm....amazing how many folks are doing this route...its become quite the trade route.

FWIW: I'm finding this thread extremely interesting. One of the topics of conversation as we sat freezing our butts off in the canyon during our first attempt was how one day folks would be doing laps in the canyon and laughing about how we became trapped.

The prediction at the time was the route would first become a test piece and eventually a trade route as skills and knowledge improved.

Climbing has more rules than golf...

Aint't that the truth.... and they are all unwritten....

[Brian in SLC]

When Jeff, Ryan and I did it, we did it as an offwidth, however, I led it and didn't entirely free it (pulled on a cam for the first move or two). Jeff did follow it free, and reported around 5.10+.

Yeah, but. Jeff is one of them talented-types. Can he accurately rate something as easy as 5.10+ ?
A serious question. I know he was, many years ago, ticking off the 5.13s - thus the question.
But then again, few people do enough off-widths to really be able to accurately rate them. Even for the talented boys, they seem to be rated 5.hard. or in Yosemite, 5.9.

Some good points... My guess is most 5.13 climbers who have been climbing awhile could accurately rate a climb at 5.10. Look at some of the local guys here, for instance, who still put up routes at both ends of the grades.

But, I'd think you'd have to have a bit of time in the OW saddle to accurately rate an OW climb. And, there seems to be a cadre of folks who routinely do and track OW climbs and their ratings. Look how many folks have been on Trench Warfare for instance, or, Belly Full of Bad Berries (best route name!) here in Utah. There are entire threads on Utah climbing websites about "classic" offwidths (an oxymoron for some of us if there ever was one). Folks seek them out.

Man, its a technique I'd like to get better at...but not trial by fire...

-Brian in SLC

[Brian in SLC]

I'm finding this thread extremely interesting. One of the topics of conversation as we sat freezing our butts off in the canyon during our first attempt was how one day folks would be doing laps in the canyon and laughing about how we became trapped.
The prediction at the time was the route would first become a test piece and eventually a trade route as skills and knowledge improved.

Climbing has more rules than golf...

Aint't that the truth.... and they are all unwritten....

You had some ol' school horsepower with you, for sure. But, probably not optimal gear (ie, huge cams). Highlights the difference between "onsight" and "flash", and why folks make the distinction.

Rules are fairly well written down. Read almost any "how to" type climbing book, and the definitions of onsight, flash, free climbing, etc are all there. And, that stuff is still hotly debated. For instance, some folks think "pink point" isn't valid anymore to describe an ascent. But, IMHO, there's a huge difference between a "pink point" and a "red point" on especially some types of climbs.

Fun stuff...

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

You had some ol' school horsepower with you, for sure. But, probably not optimal gear (ie, huge cams).

Gear was certainly lacking in our first attempt....

A little useful info that I have never seen posted before about Sandthrax.... the second documented group to successfully descend the canyon carried 3"x2" sections of wood and a saw. They just sawed the wood to length and wedged it in the crack and built a ladder of wood rungs to climb the crux. Last man up pulled out the wood rungs.

This second group got the idea from Chris and Hank who used pre-cut "woodies" to do the first documented successful descent. The woodies were 2"x2" by various lengths of pre-cut wood they wedged in the crack. Hank can probably give more details on their woodies.

[Randi]

[quote="Iceaxe"]

You had some ol' school horsepower with you, for sure. But, probably not optimal gear (ie, huge .....).

Gear was certainly lacking in our first attempt....

~Sounds self-incriminating!

Hank can probably give more details on their woodies.

~Sounds like a double ententre!



~Randi