Tip-toed over the state line to Arizona and found....

[denaliguide]

I have no problem with sharing the places I know. Whether they be archeaological site or just routes into and out of the canyons that are not frequented by the masses. I do however usually use a quid pro quo system. Kind of a "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" type of deal. I owe you one for sure.

When I first started exploring the canyons in the late 70's the 15 min. topo maps had lots of ruins and sites marked on them. It wasn't until the second generation of 7.5 minute maps came out that someone in their infinite wisdom removed that whole layer of data. Effectively censoring what was already part of the public record. Fortunately I kept all my old 15 min maps and transfered the info to the 7.5 maps and later to my Nat. Geo. Topo CD software. This took forever to do. But that info is not lost.

I find it humorous that the NPS and BLM are so secretive about these sites. Because they really aren't secret. One of my favorite things to do is to go up to the backcountry rangers desk to get my permit and ask about a particular site. Usually a category II site. Generally they are supposed to give you either the location or name of the site depending on whether you already know where it is and want the name or know the name and want the location. Sometimes they do and sometimes the don't. Occasionally I'll ask about a category III site. Then I get to see the old deer in the headlights look come across their face. Priceless. When they claim no knowledge of such a location I break out my maps and show them where it is. It just makes them look like such fools.

I fully agree that these sites need to be respected and protected. But not by a bury your head in the sand and ignore it's existince. That's a "let's not build it and no one will come type of mentality". Which never works.

So, as I have said if you want my info I'm happy to trade. There are some site which I can't in good conscience just give you the location. I will however give you all the clues you need to find it yourself. Sort of a treasure hunt kind of thing.

[tanya]

Makes sense....

Nice photo. Where is it??

[denaliguide]

It's somewhere in the Needles district of Canyonlands Nat. Park.

[Sombeech]

Amazing stuff for sure......

And the rock art was also nice......

PM nudes plz

[tanya]

Amazing stuff for sure......

And the rock art was also nice......

PM nudes plz

Awwwwww..... you were almost sweet.

[tanya]

I have no problem with sharing the places I know. Whether they be archeaological site or just routes into and out of the canyons that are not frequented by the masses. I do however usually use a quid pro quo system. Kind of a "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" type of deal. I owe you one for sure.

When I first started exploring the canyons in the late 70's the 15 min. topo maps had lots of ruins and sites marked on them. It wasn't until the second generation of 7.5 minute maps came out that someone in their infinite wisdom removed that whole layer of data. Effectively censoring what was already part of the public record. Fortunately I kept all my old 15 min maps and transfered the info to the 7.5 maps and later to my Nat. Geo. Topo CD software. This took forever to do. But that info is not lost.

I find it humorous that the NPS and BLM are so secretive about these sites. Because they really aren't secret. One of my favorite things to do is to go up to the backcountry rangers desk to get my permit and ask about a particular site. Usually a category II site. Generally they are supposed to give you either the location or name of the site depending on whether you already know where it is and want the name or know the name and want the location. Sometimes they do and sometimes the don't. Occasionally I'll ask about a category III site. Then I get to see the old deer in the headlights look come across their face. Priceless. When they claim no knowledge of such a location I break out my maps and show them where it is. It just makes them look like such fools.

I fully agree that these sites need to be respected and protected. But not by a bury your head in the sand and ignore it's existince. That's a "let's not build it and no one will come type of mentality". Which never works.

So, as I have said if you want my info I'm happy to trade. There are some site which I can't in good conscience just give you the location. I will however give you all the clues you need to find it yourself. Sort of a treasure hunt kind of thing.

I saw a photo on the uutah.com banner --- says by Richard Barron --- That looks like this same sort of "Shamon" type of art. Does anyone know where that was taken? Richard?

[Rented mule]

I'm lost...Shaman's Grotto?

[tanya]

I'm lost...Shaman's Grotto?

Is it? Where in Utah is it?

[denaliguide]

is this the shot you were thinking of? If it is then its part of the great gallery. it's located in a detached part of canyonlands nat. park. a place called barrier canyon (aka horseshoe canyon). this is where the barrier canyon style gets its name. it's archaic style and could be anywhere between 2,000 and 8,000 years old depending on who you talk to. barrier canyon is an amazing place. it's a nice easy day hike and has 4 awesome panels. high gallery, horseshoe ruins, alcove gallery and the great gallery.

[tanya]

That's it! Since its an easy hike, are the pictographs vandalised?

[Felicia]

We went to Horseshoe Canyon the day after we did Black Hole with UUtah last June. The hike is an easy hike, but there is a very long dirt road and a hot hike in the sun with some elevation loss and gain.

I did do a short post, but do not know how to locate it.

There is some damage to some panels, but it is very old. 1904 etc Most of the panels are really high and I think that protects them. Here are two pictures of a different panel.

The Great Gallery - The Ghost is the most recognized panel.

.

[Felicia]

Clarification: The panel that Denaliguide posted is called the Great Gallery. Do not recall what the name of the panel is that I posted.

[tanya]

Both are awesome! Being high does help!

[Cirrus2000]

Went in there in April, after visiting the Maze. Very haunting.

That spot is the Horseshoe Shelter site - it's about 1/4 or less of the way to the Great Gallery on the hike in. Pretty neat - I love the "quadruped" (dog?) next to the "anthropomorph" (human). Very cute. Sadly, that part is pretty vandalized in parts. The High Gallery, at least, is pretty immune to vandalization, being waaaay up.

[denaliguide]

some interesting reading.

the archeaology of horseshoe canyon.

http://www.cnha.org/scientificpapers...=1153319994907

[denaliguide]

Being high does help!

and the fact that they are way off the deck offers them some protection.

[Gordon Smith]

[denaliguide]

At cotton wood spring there is a ghost there at night, before you dought my word just stay there once at night and see for your selfs, it throws rocks, they do not tumble they just hit and this will go on untill you leave, this is for real, this is south of Gordons panel about 1 1/2 mile at the mines, you will be safe if your under a over hang, this has been going on for many years, and Im not the only one Thanks Gordon Smith of gordons panel

thanks for the heads up. and welcome to the forum. hope to run into you on the trail someday.

[tanya]

At cotton wood spring there is a ghost there at night, before you dought my word just stay there once at night and see for your selfs, it throws rocks, they do not tumble they just hit and this will go on untill you leave, this is for real, this is south of Gordons panel about 1 1/2 mile at the mines, you will be safe if your under a over hang, this has been going on for many years, and Im not the only one Thanks Gordon Smith of gordons panel

Welcome to the group Gordon! You must be the man who found the panel in this thread. I bet you have lots of stories of the Grand Canyon. I hope you stick around and tell them to us!

[sparker1]

Gordon, so happy to have you in the forum. I'm guessing you have a unique perspective that we will welcome.