Tip-toed over the state line to Arizona and found....

[accadacca]

Amazing stuff for sure......

And the rock art was also nice......

[tanya]

Amazing stuff for sure......

And the rock art was also nice......

Awwwww --- you made me blush

[tanya]

"Shamans' Gallery contains the oldest prehistoric evidence of man in the Grand Canyon and is quite possibly the most important rock art panel discovered on the North American continent. The site was used by Indian shamans to try and communicate with the supernatural for thousands of years. "

So.......
from his site....

Anyone have thoughts on it? It is right on or is this just wishful thinking about the picto's?


News: September 2, 2006
The Truth About Gordon's Panel

There are many links, some of which are even National Park Service links, suggesting the paintings at Gordon's Panel may be Anasazi. This is in fact not true at all. Every time you read that this is so, you are receiving incorrect information. The Anazasi Indians were in the area at later times, but kept away from Gordon's Panel because it was very big medicine to them and they were afraid of that particular area, a place they thought of as a "Place of the Gods". The Anasazi did not go near this panel and did not put any writings on, or around, it.

The height of the Anasazi period was 600 years ago. Before this period were Basket Maker 2, Basket Maker 1, Fremont times, and Archaic periods, the earliest "Indians" we know of. Some so-called experts call the anthropomorphic images at Gordon's Panel "Barrier-Canyon style". Barrier Canyon paintings date back to the Archaic period. If you compare the paintings at Gordon's Panel with Barrier Canyon paintings, there is nothing Barrier-Canyon style about them, with the exception of one figure. Gordon's Panel is older than any of the paintings at Barrier Canyon. The very earliest images that are painted over may be as old as 20,000 years old. Gordon's Panel is so old that these paintings were done long before the pyramids at Giza were built. This site was able to exist for so long because it is totally protected from rain and the elements. There are images on top of images on top of images. There are also some animals in there with huge antlers, which kind of look like those from Europe, going back 20-50,000 years. The more you look at the paintings at this site, the more questions are raised about what peoples could have painted them.

Gordon's Panel was made by a race of people that was not known to be there at these time periods. Archeologists can speculate all they want on who these people were, or try to categorize them, which is very wrong to do. For example, to say that ALL Native Americans in North America, Central America, and South America trickled down from the Bering Strait is obscene. There were sea-going peoples of whose origins we have no idea. There were also trade routes from South America, Central America, and modern-day Mexico. The peoples who lived in the Grand Canyon had contact with these people by trade, and also learned different types of architecture, hunting practices, farming practices, etc. There are plenty of other examples. Many of the Mayan and Incan structures down in Mexico resemble those of Egypt. Is this coincidence or was knowledge passed between sea-going peoples? Cocaine from South America has been found in mummies in Egypt. There is only one type of cocoa plant and it is only found in South America. When Gordon first sent pictures of Gordon's Panel to the National Park Service, they were thought to be Aboriginal from Australia. That's what the National Park Service archaeologists told their superintendent! Do these sound like Barrier-Canyon style paintings, folks?

Gordon's Panel was made by a race of people we do not know much, if anything, about. We can categorize them as Archaic peoples, hunter-gatherers. It seems they did not make pottery, but they did weave baskets. But there has been found, in close proximity, ancient mummies with hair still on the scalps, and the hair is not black, the hair is red. These people may not be Indians as we know them. For more examples, look at the Other Rock Art Sites page on my web site, specifically at the Parowan Gap writings. These writings were supposed to be Fremont Indian writings dating 3,000 years old, written by Fremont Indians with hand-held rocks. But what modern archaeologists have failed to account for is the hardness of the rock. Look at the writings more closely. There is no way that these writings were done with another rock held in hand. These were done with metal tools. At that time, 3,000 years ago, metallurgy was not thought to exist. You will notice three moons and a large circle. This is in fact ancient Greek. Look at the cave paintings from the Arizona Strip. These are in fact Fremont style paintings but if you ask any archaeologist, they will say the Fremont Indians were not in Arizona at all. So decide for yourself. Who these people were, only the past knows; with careful study, the future might tell.

Modern-day archaeologists are aging sites by comparing one site to another. This is the wrong thing to do. This is their way of aging sites because in fact they have no clue how to age them. One thing they need to do is to analyze certain fungus growths that are on top of the dyes used in making these paintings because some fungus take thousands upon thousands of years to grow and can be categorically aged. Microscopic fungus forms not seen by the human eye can be analyzed. The National Park Service should spend their money and time studying Gordon's Panel to find out exactly what is under their jurisdiction before it is lost.

To justify that Gordon's Panel needs serious protection and study, please people, hike in there for yourself. Hike over to Cottonwood Spring from Gordon's Panel to the south. There you will see an ancient mine, a copper mine. This was made by the Spaniards. Look around a little bit, under your overhangs in the sandstone that are close to the mine. There are beautiful archaic paintings on the ceilings which are being destroyed by modern-day hikers' campfires. Wake up, NPS.

Major discoveries in archaeology are not made by schooled archaeologists; they are made by sheepherders, goat herders, cowboys, hikers, and hunters. Who found the Dead Sea Scrolls? A goat herder. Who found Gordon's Panel? A cowboy. Modern archaeologists would have to re-write the history books if Gordon Smith is correct. Is this is why they have kept Gordon's Panel a secret for 20 years? There is so much to learn from this site, and the National Park Service has actively kept it out of the view of the public. The National Park Service has to remember one thing. The Park is supposed to be the People's Park. They treat Gordon's Panel like it's a piece of their private property. Instead, it should be a National Treasure, and the People's Treasure, requiring serious study. These are our origins, and this is our past.


http://www.gordonspanel.com/news20060902.html

[tanya]

sorry for the hijack Tanya--

isn't there a road that forks off of toroweap and goes above crystal rapid?

never been on that one. This is below the Mt. Trumbull turnoff I presume.

I get bored with one train of thought... hijack anytime. So where are the Birch Hollow shots!?

[oldno7]

I started off at the parking lot with intentions to record the trip on my new hi-def camcorder,after the first rap I never had time to pull it out again.
I did give out my e-mail to several people and when/if I get them I will post.

[Alex]

Amazing stuff for sure......

And the rock art was also nice......

... rock art???? I am not seeing any rock art...

[tanya]

Amazing stuff for sure......

And the rock art was also nice......

... rock art???? I am not seeing any rock art...

I LOVE This group! ~smooch~!

[greyhair biker]

Oh there's art there...well formed...picturesque scenery...oh my!
...Hey, is that something in the background??

[tanya]

Oh there's art there...well formed...picturesque scenery...oh my!
...Hey, is that something in the background??

Big Smile

[sparker1]

This has been a fascinating thread (at least the parts about Gordon's Panel), and I want to thank you for sharing with us.

[Felicia]

I agree. We will be out there soon and I can't wait to go see the panels. Thanks!!!!

[tanya]

This has been a fascinating thread (at least the parts about Gordon's Panel), and I want to thank you for sharing with us.

Hey!

Not the part about me!?!?!?!?!

[tanya]

I agree. We will be out there soon and I can't wait to go see the panels. Thanks!!!!

YOU Ma'm are VERY welcome!

~smooch~

[sparker1]

This has been a fascinating thread (at least the parts about Gordon's Panel), and I want to thank you for sharing with us.

Hey!

Not the part about me!?!?!?!?!

That part was MORE than fascinating.

[denaliguide]

Thanks for sharing the photos. Absolutely fascinating. I was at Toroweap and Nampaweap this past July. If only I had known then what I know now. I would have made the hike in to the site. Even though temps were in the 100's. Now I have a reason to go back and do it.

[tanya]

This has been a fascinating thread (at least the parts about Gordon's Panel), and I want to thank you for sharing with us.

Hey!

Not the part about me!?!?!?!?!

That part was MORE than fascinating.

At your service.

[tanya]

Thanks for sharing the photos. Absolutely fascinating. I was at Toroweap and Nampaweap this past July. If only I had known then what I know now. I would have made the hike in to the site. Even though temps were in the 100's. Now I have a reason to go back and do it.

There are few sites like this and the other similar ones are hidden from the public and kept secret by the NPS for research and such --- as I think it should be. It was really sad to see all the graffiti there.

This brings up a debate!

How do you feel about a trail report to pictos/petros that few really know about?

My feeling on this particaular rock art is that...

1. Enough know about the panel that it already has LOTS of graffiti -- some even through the pictos!
2. That only a few about them and apparently the wrong type of people! I tend to think that "locals" tell other "locals" and this often seems to be the types that vandalizes things -- younger people perhaps.
3. The hike is hard enough to keep out those that just want to drive somewhere and trash it.


On the other side...
1. I am sure the NPS would like to keep them as secret as possible, but I am not sure about this.
2. Local natives usually don't want people knowing where things like this is.

Thoughts?

[sparker1]

Yep, the Indians and the NPS want to keep it secret. However, word always gets out and the "wrong" people show up. Sometimes they just stumble on it.

The NPS needs to protect it while allowing access to responsible people. This is difficult and expensive, so they prefer to hide it. As for the Indians, some tribes would fence it in and charge outrageous fees to se it. Others truly want to preserve and protect and hiding it is their only avenue.

Incidentally, BLM has lied to me about several things in hopes of keeping some of their secrets.

I think it is fair to document such places on a site like this one, seen by people who appreciate the value involved.

[tanya]

Yep, the Indians and the NPS want to keep it secret. However, word always gets out and the "wrong" people show up. Sometimes they just stumble on it.

The NPS needs to protect it while allowing access to responsible people. This is difficult and expensive, so they prefer to hide it. As for the Indians, some tribes would fence it in and charge outrageous fees to See it. Others truly want to preserve and protect and hiding it is their only avenue.

Incidentally, BLM has lied to me about several things in hopes of keeping some of their secrets.

I think it is fair to document such places on a site like this one, seen by people who appreciate the value involved.

That makes me feel better since I always respect your VERY WISE advise on the things you post on. Thanks Stan!

I really like that point about "some Indians" that would fence it and charge. This is quite true!

So many points of view.

Bottom line I think...

This is a National Park -- -Public Lands.. the Public should be able to visit it, but we all have to work together and educate people about taking care of these sites.

Yes?

[denaliguide]

oop's