Oak Creek now open to limited access

[tanya]

[quote=CarpeyBiggs][quote=James_B_Wads2000]First of all the LDS Church and Joe Blow or whatever his name is doesn

[CarpeyBiggs]

I posted the map, take a look at it. They own the entire technical portion of the canyon that we all want to do. And how do we know they don't give a crap? They bought the property, they must care about it enough to own it.

[tanya]

I am talking about it (the canyon and the people) in general terms.... not just one canyon or any people in particular.

[James_B_Wads2000]

I should probably count to ten before posting angry, but my position still stands. The technical portion of this canyon maybe on land

[sparker1]

Down here, the issue is beach access. Everyone owns the beach, but individuals own land that could be used to access the public beach. The rights of those property owners have been established. Towns hold back small tracts of land just for beach access, to avoid the conflicts of people parading through private property. In some cases, private property owners have tried to keep people from walking on the beach behind their property and that can't be legally done.

James, I think you would lose if the property owner went after you for trespassing, no matter how angry you might be.

Maybe Scott could help us here.

[stefan]

[quote=James_B_Wads2000]I should probably count to ten before posting angry, but my position still stands. The technical portion of this canyon maybe on land

[Iceaxe]

[quote=James_B_Wads2000]I don

[Jaxx]

Just trolling here but...

James' rant sounds like the argument the ORV crowd has in the Moab area. One person owns a piece of land that they restrict so no one can access a 4x4 route. Of course hiking was bestowed upon us by the heavens and only heathens drive 4x4s so the situation is "different"

I just want to add a few more pages to this thread.

[ratagonia]

As noted, Mr. Bird does not own the canyon, but the access from the north side. Due to problems with people accessing through Camp Kolob, I scoped out and released access via the North side several years ago. Since I am a follower of all the RS2477 BS, I suggested people park on the county road and follow an old county road down to the canyon rim and down into the canyon. I checked with Washington County and with the BLM, and the both told me they had no way of knowing if they owned the road or what! Thus I entered the pantheon of Jim Bird's devils.

The landowners were upset last year due to various persons coming into the area, partying all night with big fires and possible firearms, and leaving lots of trash. Canyoneers? I think not, but who knows. People passing through Camp Kolob during church services did not really help matters either.

If land is not posted, you are not trespassing. There is access to Oak Creek by parking discreetely in the woods and hiking down into the watercourse, and following the watercourse to the first rap. Choose a place where there are no "No Trespassing" signs.

Tom

[stefan]

thanks, tom

[Iceaxe]

If land is not posted, you are not trespassing.

Actully the land is posted..... just not correctly (or that was the case last time I was in the area). What that means is you can probably beat the ticket in court..... if you were actually issued a ticket and wanted to spend the time and money to fight it.

Properly posted is a big issue with the hunting and fishing crowd. You can google the law but this link is a good start.
http://www.cwmuutahwildlife.org/trespass.htm

One other tid-bit.... if you are asked to leave and do not then you are trespassing.

[James_B_Wads2000]

I know this post is dead as a doornail but I had one rebuttail for Ice.

I also believe the prices these canyon guides charge are fair and reasonable. As a business owner I'm aware of all the hidden expenses these guys have to cover with insurance, taxes, advertising, payroll, yada, yada..... and after all that there isn't a lot left over for the pocket at the end of the day.

Oh boo hoo, these poor small business owners can only make their poorly planed inherently flawed business model profitable by making sweetheart deals with land owners that illegally restricting access to public lands. How are those hippies going to be able to bring home the tofu?

Reasonable? How is $250 per person reasonable? I think you have applied a double standard here. You have stated a couple of times in your posts, like the one below, in regards to the Zion Permit system that the permit price is unfair because the extra $25 could make those with limited means (poor folks) unable to go. If $25 bucks it unfair then how is $250 per person reasonable?

Maybe you mean reasonable as far as guided service costs but this is my whole point, many people can

[nelsonccc]

Good thing I have been there, done that.

making whoopee on top of a water tank before canyoning?

Is that covered by the 249 dollar fee? If so, I bet Nelsonccc would pay that in a second.

Hell no. That stuff is a hell of a lot cheaper here in town.

[nelsonccc]

[quote=Iceaxe][quote=James_B_Wads2000]I don