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Thread: National Public Lands Day, Saturday 9/29

  1. #1

    National Public Lands Day, Saturday 9/29

    Everyone is invited to attend a National Public Lands Day volunteer activity on Saturday the 29th at American Fork Canyon. Sponsored by Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association. Free t-shirts for all volunteers.

    Details:

    http://www.uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8665

    http://www.u4wda.org/af

    Out of curiosity, who else is planning on participating in NPLD projects? What other groups are sponsoring projects? With all the public land users here on this board, I'm sure many of you will be volunteering on the 29th. What projects will you participate in?

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  3. #2

    Re: National Public Lands Day, Saturday 9/29

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Out of curiosity, who else is planning on participating in NPLD projects?
    One vote for nothing. This is the first I have heard about it.

    Disclaimer: By "nothing" I mean I am doing stuff just not NPLD related, so don't try to guilt me into coming up
    The man thong is wrong.

  4. #3
    Without trying to start another war... Okay, maybe I am.

    Does anyone else find it ironic that ATV users (ok, and a few bikes) are the main people on those trails out of Tibble Fork, and they are also the ones organizing a massive clean up project for their own trails? Sounds like an admission of guilt. Regardless, glad to see y'all getting out there to keep that area looking good.

    As for picking up litter, I hope everyone does that when they are outside, regardless of whether it is Public Lands Day or not.

    Flame on.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs

    Does anyone else find it ironic that ATV users (ok, and a few bikes) are the main people on those trails out of Tibble Fork, and they are also the ones organizing a massive clean up project for their own trails? Sounds like an admission of guilt. Regardless, glad to see y'all getting out there to keep that area looking good.
    Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association is the state 4x4 (as in full-size vehicle) organization.

    Directly out of Tibble Fork are only motorcycle/mountain bike trails. ATV and 4x4 trails are further up the north fork.

    It seems that you have no understanding of what's going on up there. Have you been up there, or just assuming? The trash collection is all about the dispersed camping areas used by car-campers and hikers along the main road. The side trails of the canyon (devoid of campsites) are clean. These are the technical routes where ATV's and 4x4's travel for recreation.

    If there was really such a concern about the environment (as many of you claim) wouldn't you come participate in such projects regardless of whether it was hikers, mining, or OHVs that left the trash?

    Good to see how UUTAH folks feel about this. I thought it was a waste to encourage involvement in NPLD, but I thought I'd give it a try.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association is the state 4x4 (as in full-size vehicle) organization.
    Didn't catch that, my apologies.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Directly out of Tibble Fork are only motorcycle/mountain bike trails. ATV and 4x4 trails are further up the north fork.
    Right, I thought you were talking about those trails. Which, in the three times I've been up there this year, are in pretty good shape as far as litter goes, but not exactly suitable for hikers, given the traffic they see. I do have some nice pictures I took of a meadow that was nicely torn up by some motorcycle damage though. Last time I was up there (last month) the meadow looked almost fully recovered though. Mostly off of the Summit TH and between Tibble Fork, and part of the 157 trail system.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    It seems that you have no understanding of what's going on up there. Have you been up there, or just assuming? The trash collection is all about the dispersed camping areas used by car-campers and hikers along the main road. The side trails of the canyon (devoid of campsites) are clean. These are the technical routes where ATV's and 4x4's travel for recreation.
    Like I said, I've been up there a few times. Climbed Box Elder twice from that side this summer. Nothing like being in a Wilderness area, and hearing ATV's roaring up and down the canyon below you from 3 miles away... I've also been up to the reservoir countless times when the whole place looks like a huge ATV staging area, and I do find the whole scene a little obnoxious. But, that's just part of the price to pay if you want to access the east side of Box Elder, and the south side of the Lone Peak Wilderness areas.

    I also like to wander around there after work to see if I can photograph the moose that are often out and about. But I probably don't know the area as intimately as you do, especially the North Fork area northeast of the reservoir. I spend my time in wilderness areas approaching Box Elder to the west and the trailhead out of Silver Lakes Flat reservoir to the north.

    I've only driven up part of the N. Fork past the reservoir once so far this year, when I went to backpack up to Silver Glance Lake in June. Didn't look too bad, from what I saw, just packed with people. I assume that's typical up there, after all it's great country with easy access. One of the reasons I frequent it too. I did think the reservoir was trashed pretty good though. I spent about an hour tossing a line in the water for fish, and about an hour walking around picking up trash. My bet is that is from the car campers who fish out of their car. (Not placing blame on the OHV crowd for that.)

    As for the main trails outside of the bike trails I mentioned, you are correct, I don't know them well. I don't go up there much. Maybe I can come up with you sometime? I think you'd find me a pretty level-headed dude in person. I'd actually consider attending that weekend, but I have plans for a few days in Southern Utah already.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    If there was really such a concern about the environment (as many of you claim) wouldn't you come participate in such projects regardless of whether it was hikers, mining, or OHVs that left the trash?
    Nothing wrong with people not participating in an organized event, and by not participating it doesn't mean that those people don't care about the environment or aren't actively improving it on their own. The spirit of the activity is good, no arguments there, and I commended you for it already. As I mentioned before though, no need to have a holiday to take care of the environment. I hope we all conscientiously clean up any messes we see any chance we get.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Good to see how UUTAH folks feel about this. I thought it was a waste to encourage involvement in NPLD, but I thought I'd give it a try.
    You don't have to lump all of UUTAH in with me and my opinion. In fact, I'd bet more people on here feel I'm the outlier.

    My only point was that the group who is organizing the cleanup is the group who uses the area the most, and therefore makes the largest impact. And then trying to get the press to come cover it so you can make a positive impression on the rest of the community. I just hope you mention to the press it was the OHV crowd that trashed it in the first place. (But then again, if that assumption is wrong, flame away. I can eat my crow if needs be.)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
    I also like to wander around there after work to see if I can photograph the moose that are often out and about.
    I see a lot of moose up there. It seems that the myth of wildlife being scared away by OHV activity is a complete falsehood. I've driven up right be moose walking on roads, moose will walk right by campsites, and I've seen moose within 25 feet of the road who seem completely uninterested whenever someone drives by.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
    Nothing wrong with people not participating in an organized event, and by not participating it doesn't mean that those people don't care about the environment or aren't actively improving it on their own. The spirit of the activity is good, no arguments there, and I commended you for it already. As I mentioned before though, no need to have a holiday to take care of the environment. I hope we all conscientiously clean up any messes we see any chance we get.
    Ah, I remember when I felt this way. Then I got involved and got educated. Spend considerable time learning about public land management and the issues involved, and you'll learn why organized proejcts (from all types of groups) are so important. It's nice to be a good user who doesn't leave trash (and even removes the trash of others), but that is not much compared to the work accomplished by organized projects. I would consider being a good user who picks up trash while on trips to be the bare minimum.


    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
    My only point was that the group who is organizing the cleanup is the group who uses the area the most, and therefore makes the largest impact. And then trying to get the press to come cover it so you can make a positive impression on the rest of the community. I just hope you mention to the press it was the OHV crowd that trashed it in the first place. (But then again, if that assumption is wrong, flame away. I can eat my crow if needs be.)
    There are plenty of projects on hiking trails if you'd rather participate in one of those.

    I just remember previous discussions where other UUTAH'ers would throw out all these claims that the OHV community doesn't do anything to self-police, regulate, educate, or protect the environment. Many mentioned that they wanted to be involved in service projects like this. I post everytime we do one. Have yet to see a UUTAH person at any of these projects though.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    I see a lot of moose up there. It seems that the myth of wildlife being scared away by OHV activity is a complete falsehood. I've driven up right be moose walking on roads, moose will walk right by campsites, and I've seen moose within 25 feet of the road who seem completely uninterested whenever someone drives by.
    Yeah, crazy amounts of wildlife up there. I hear the bike trail up Mill(??) canyon has a lot of elk around right now, fresh out of the velvet.

    I think part of the wildlife myth that we forget is that these animals have lost a lot of prime land in the area (namely, the Suncrest ridge that the Elk used to use to get to winter feeding grounds) and are now more habituated to seeing humans and mechanized travel, and thus less inclined to run away. I do find the elk very difficult to find up there, though. Moose are easy to find though.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Ah, I remember when I felt this way. Then I got involved and got educated. Spend considerable time learning about public land management and the issues involved, and you'll learn why organized proejcts (from all types of groups) are so important. It's nice to be a good user who doesn't leave trash (and even removes the trash of others), but that is not much compared to the work accomplished by organized projects. I would consider being a good user who picks up trash while on trips to be the bare minimum.
    I agree on the bare minimum, but if everyone does it, suddenly there is no need for group projects. I do see your point though on the synergy of that type of activity. Many hands makes light work. But imagine if everyone did it on their own... That's even more hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    There are plenty of projects on hiking trails if you'd rather participate in one of those.
    Be sure to post those as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    I just remember previous discussions where other UUTAH'ers would throw out all these claims that the OHV community doesn't do anything to self-police, regulate, educate, or protect the environment.
    Yeah, I personally do feel that way, only because of my own personal experiences. My feeling is that they may want to protect the environment, but their idea of what is damaging and my idea of what is damaging are a little different... Do I have substantial empirical evidence to prove this? Nope. Just got my brain and my gut, and I haven't been proven wrong yet. But with that said, I would like to attend some sort of event or project with you guys. I'm willing to be humbled, if you think it's possible...

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Many mentioned that they wanted to be involved in service projects like this. I post everytime we do one. Have yet to see a UUTAH person at any of these projects though.
    That's because most of us would rather type at our computers ABOUT the outdoors, instead of actually being out there, right? Seriously though, this might be getting repetitive, but I'll come out with you sometime, just give me a little notice. But I don't want to be labeled a "uutah" person, or a "suwa" person. I'll just show up as Dan, if that's ok.

    Speaking of, why haven't you come on one of our canyoneering trips yet?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
    I agree on the bare minimum, but if everyone does it, suddenly there is no need for group projects. I do see your point though on the synergy of that type of activity. Many hands makes light work. But imagine if everyone did it on their own... That's even more hands.
    But even if every user is picking up the trash they see, when do fences get built? What about trail maintenance or building? What signage installation? No matter how noble the intentions of individual users might be, there's a need for organized projects and these projects are necessary to maintain our public lands and recreation opportunities (canyoneering, hiking, backpacking, ohv, fishing, everything).

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    There are plenty of projects on hiking trails if you'd rather participate in one of those.
    Be sure to post those as well.
    I usually don't know about those, but here's a list of registered projects for NPLD:

    http://www.publiclandsday.org/involved/utah.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
    Speaking of, why haven't you come on one of our canyoneering trips yet?
    I'd really like to. I'm thinking of organizing a little trip for some 4x4 friends where we can mix an off-road trip with a hike through a canyon. We usually do drive to the "end of the road" and then do some hikes. Where's a good, non-technical canyon that can be hiked by canyon-novices somewhere in the Swell?

  10. #9
    These kind of organized cleanups are great - regardless of who organized it. It raises public awareness to a real problem and offers a solution that ANYONE can participate in. I've seen all walks of life getting involved in these cleanups and only good usually comes from it....everyone starts to communicate....amazing what that will do!
    ...BTW, a little 'service' never hurt anyone

  11. #10
    Checked out the link, and there is lots of good stuff on there. I hadn't realized the scope and size of the day/event. Not just a 4WD group cleanup, this covers a lot of ground in Utah. Nice find, thanks for posting.

    http://www.publiclandsday.org/involved/utah.htm

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Where's a good, non-technical canyon that can be hiked by canyon-novices somewhere in the Swell?
    Little Wild Horse, Crack canyon are two that I enjoy that don't need tech gear, you may want a rope for down climbing in Crack. You can find the info on www.climb-utah.com
    The man thong is wrong.

  13. #12
    Anyone else doing anything for NPLD?

  14. #13
    Of the over 6000 registered users on this site (presumably most are public land users) no one else is doing anything for National Public Lands Day? That's a real surprise. I thought for sure that Rev Coyote would have a nail seeding project planned or something.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    I thought for sure that Rev Coyote would have a nail seeding project planned or something.
    The man thong is wrong.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Of the over 6000 registered users on this site (presumably most are public land users) no one else is doing anything for National Public Lands Day? That's a real surprise. I thought for sure that Rev Coyote would have a nail seeding project planned or something.
    I'd honestly never heard of it until you brought it up. On the other hand, I will be working that day, and maybe more importantly, I'm in another country.

    Perhaps it should have a higher profile... I'm impressed by your zeal in promoting it on the board here, and hope that some members will look into getting involved with organized activities.

    Maybe I'll send the Rev a box of roofing nails...

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus2000
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Of the over 6000 registered users on this site (presumably most are public land users) no one else is doing anything for National Public Lands Day? That's a real surprise. I thought for sure that Rev Coyote would have a nail seeding project planned or something.
    I'd honestly never heard of it until you brought it up. On the other hand, I will be working that day, and maybe more importantly, I'm in another country.

    Perhaps it should have a higher profile... I'm impressed by your zeal in promoting it on the board here, and hope that some members will look into getting involved with organized activities.

    Maybe I'll send the Rev a box of roofing nails...
    I hadn't heard of it either until a couple years ago when I saw an announcement about it in Backpacker Magazine. They had 100,000 volunteers across the country last year. Not huge, but decent. I don't know what their media budget is, but I never see/hear any ads in print/radio. It's a great idea, but I wonder if it is lost between trails day and other such activities.

    I just thought it was interesting that there are some on this board who are always trying to paint an inaccurate picture regarding the OHV community and their involvement in volunteer projects. Yet, the OHV groups are the only user groups organizing their own projects for NPLD while all other projects are organized by the land managers themselves. I was hoping that this factual information would help break some of the stereotypes that are often promoted on this board (and others).

    Regardless, it is a great way to "give back" to the lands we enjoy all year (for all user groups), and anyone is welcome to join our group project in AF Canyon. Someday, I'd love to see a hiking group, a mountain biking group, an equestrian group, and an OHV group all get together for a group project in AF Canyon since it's an area that all of these groups use and enjoy.

  18. #17
    Full report of the AF project here:

    http://www.uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82428#82428

    Looking forward to hearing about other NPLD activities over the weekend.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by scoutabout
    Someday, I'd love to see a hiking group, a mountain biking group, an equestrian group, and an OHV group all get together for a group project in AF Canyon since it's an area that all of these groups use and enjoy.
    I think this board would be a great place to organize something along those lines. It'd be cool to see someone here try to organize something just like that for next year. scoutabout posted the date - Sept 27 '08. Anyone want to think about building bridges (rather than burning them) between communities when the date approaches? Thing is, I'll bet there's a lot of crossovers. Mountain biking hikers, hiking 4x4ers, 4x4ing bikers, etc.

    Cool project, methinks. (Easy for me to make the suggestion without taking up the project, living elsewhere, huh?)

  20. #19
    I challenge UUTAH to organize a project next year. With all the public land users here on this forum, I'm surprised that no one else here participated in any NPLD projects.

    When it comes to preserving and protecting our public lands, being a responsible user just isn't enough. No matter what your favorite form of public land recreation involves, your volunteer efforts are needed!

  21. #20
    Bogley BigShot
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyhair biker
    These kind of organized cleanups are great - regardless of who organized it. It raises public awareness to a real problem and offers a solution that ANYONE can participate in. I've seen all walks of life getting involved in these cleanups and only good usually comes from it....everyone starts to communicate....amazing what that will do!
    ...BTW, a little 'service' never hurt anyone


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